Writing in 1st person vs. 3rd person

[Phil]

Interesting chat on WTF between Marc and Whitney Cummings about this. Marc wonders if he should talk specifically about a topic, or generally.

Marc: "So as soon as you say, "I", it's you and them. And the risk is, how many people are really going to understand this? Is this going to be relatable? Or are they just going to hear me taking a shot at my mother?"

Whitney quotes Louis CK: "The more specific you are, the more general you are."

Whitney: "If you say, 'men do this, women do this' it's just kinda like ugh...but as soon as you say 'I', it makes it more universal."

Marc: "I don't know if I agree with that."

Marc: "But as soon as you say 'I', the audience thinks, 'I'm like that too'."

[Phil]

I struggle with this everytime I write a new bit.

If I write in 3rd person, I feel the joke will go over better, it's more relatable to the audience, but I feel so hacky speaking in third person. "You know how..?" "You ever...?"

If I write in 1st person, I feel the audience sometimes doesn't get it, they think I'm talking about MY mother and not EVERYBODY's mother.

A few times I've tested a new bit in 3rd person, then if it worked, re-wrote it in 1st person.

Any of you guys deal with this too?

[jonathantincher]

I like the advice given on Comedy and Everything Else... which is not to start bits with a question because it's like you're asking the audience for permission to tell the joke.

I try to deal with the issue of 1st vs 3rd person on a joke by joke basis. The rhythm of the joke itself should be what tells you which person to use. On a slightly more grammatical note, you're actually talking about the 2nd person. The third person would be more of a classical joke structure like, "A man walks into a bar..."

In other words, find what works best and makes your feel like you're conveying the idea most effectively.

[Phil]

I like the advice given on Comedy and Everything Else... which is not to start bits with a question because it's like you're asking the audience for permission to tell the joke.

But interesting how soooo many famous comics do just that, and it works (for them).

And how many comics tag every sentence with, "...right?". Ugh.

I try to deal with the issue of 1st vs 3rd person on a joke by joke basis. The rhythm of the joke itself should be what tells you which person to use. On a slightly more grammatical note, you're actually talking about the 2nd person. The third person would be more of a classical joke structure like, "A man walks into a bar..."

Lol, i feel dumb. I attended UMBC and Baltimore County public schools ;-)



In other words, find what works best and makes your feel like you're conveying the idea most effectively.[/QUOTE]

[ErikNielsen]

I feel like we're talking about third person general here -- i.e. "men do this," "women say that," "barbers shouldn't make much money," etc.

Because let's face it, you're stuck with third-person specific. If the premise is "my uncle always does this weird thing" or "David Bowie said the following" or whatever, it's a joke about your uncle, or about David Bowie.

Anyway... I feel like the only time generalizations work is when they're clearly your stage persona, and not meant to be taken as an authoritative opinion.

Like, "women are always shouting at people" meaning "women are always shouting at people (don't you agree?)" isn't good. Either they DO agree, and they're not giving you credit for saying something they see as obvious, or they don't agree, and it seems like a stereotype or a generalization to them.

Second level: "my girlfriend is always shouting at me." Now we're into the first person, and you'll note people don't have to agree with you about a blanket statement in order to laugh. The people who would've agreed with you can hear your story about your girlfriend and think, "yeah, women ARE always shouting at people" -- and you'll get more credit from them, because they feel they're making the connection.

And those people who would've disagreed with/been offended by the first statement aren't obliged to agree with this one. They just have to agree with the fact that your girlfriend shouts at you a lot. And who are they to question that?

(Mind you, I'm not sure how your girlfriend feels about this joke. Check with your girlfriend!)

But then there's the third level, the working-in-character level I mentioned before. "Women are always shouting at people" implying "I am the kind of person who frequently gets shouted at by women, and have developed certain biases as a result" -- THAT, to me, is where things start getting really interesting. That's not the beginning of a joke about some nebulous concept of Women -- it's the beginning of a joke about you, and phrasing it differently just adds an extra layer of artfulness to it.

Not that all comics or all jokes need that layer -- sometimes you're better off going in directly and making it first-person. But it's good to know that that opportunity for perspective is there, if you can get access to it.

[Bucky_Sinister]

There's also a lot of second person in standup, which I think is overused.