Theft and How to Deal With It

[Alex Mac]

This is a bit of a roundabout story but simply put, I have a friend who is also a fellow comedian and there seems to be some blurry lines at the moment about who has the claims to certain material.

That is, he seems to like to take things which we have discussed and put them into his act. We will have conversations about things and I will shoot out a small joke and he seems to think that it is simply a matter of who get to the stage first gets to keep it. I explicitly told him once not to use a joke that he wanted to use onstage, making it clear that the conception of that joke was my own doing during our conversations.

Now he contacts me and asks about the context in which he thought up a joke about Hugh Jackman (a quick toss off line more than a joke) when 1, he did not come up with it and 2, I already used it in an improv comedy setting. I am concerned that he will get credit for the joke since he does more work on campus and I tend to go off into the clubs and other venues. More than that, I am dismayed that this scenario is repeating itself when I already had to tell him once before "I would appreciate if you don't use that material".

The questions are these:

1. If two comedians are shooting the breeze and talking and just kicking riffs back and forth and one coems up with something, who has the claim to that material? I mean, I would think that it would be the originator of the concept, right?

2. How do I go about telling this individual (whose selective memory has convinced himself that he came up with the joke) that he didn't come up with the idea? How do I go about telling him not to do the material without damaging our friendship? I don't want to be a dick but I'm really not too pleased right now.

[punkdc]

1. If me and my friends are just sitting around talking (I have no friends who do stand up at all) and we do stumble across something I like, I ALWAYS ASK to use it on stage. Of course my friends think this is great because it becomes a inside joke between us. Most of the time, it takes some work to make sure it flows into a bit well so over time, it does become mine after awhile because I work on it.

2. Punch them? I really have nothing helpful to say here, but maybe just try explaining that you did come up with it first and it's not fair for them to take it.

[pixel revolt]

Please post the redeeming aspects of your relationship with this person.

[pg13]

You're worried about damaging the friendship of someone who clearly doesn't value your feelings or your polite requests?

One might be inclined to question whether or not such a person is truly your friend.

Truth is...comedians do have the reputation for strip-mining their lives for comedic material--and that process can damage relationships, make friends more cautious about what parts of their lives and their personalities they show around their comedian friends, and cause people to say things like "Oh, you're not going to talk about this in your act, right?" over things that NO ONE would talk about on stage.

You also have comedians who stop actually having real conversations but merely look at human interaction as a way to slip material from their act in...to "test it" to see if people think that its funny... That can be really fucking annoying, believe me.

There are few hard and fast rules when it comes to protecting comedic ideas. Legally, they exist in the ether...waiting and available for anyone to pluck them and put them into something legally protectable... Your rule is "it belongs to the person who thought of it" IS colloquially superseded by the rule that says "it belongs to whoever does it on stage"...which is, itself, superseded by the rule that says "it belongs to whoever does it on television first"...which is superseded by the rule that says that "it belongs to whoever makes it a signature element that people associate with that performer"--however THAT'S defined--but LEGALLY, none of those rules have any weight...

As comedians, we're expected to police ourselves and the only justice we can mete out is shame and bad reputations...so, good luck remaining friends!

pg--seattle

PS--I've been in comedy writing groups and the agreed upon rule in each of these groups was made explicitly right at the start: "Whoever introduces the TOPIC gets to use any of the ideas tossed around ON THAT TOPIC, unless someone is already using that topic."

That solved most problems...except when someone wouldn't use a tag that someone tossed off--it kind of went into a limbo where the person who thought of it couldn't take it back, even though the person who brought up the topic in the group didn't like that suggestion.

PPS--Good luck trying to ANYONE trying to claim ideas generated in improv setting. And good luck trying to assert who "deserves credit" for a comedic idea.

Just remember, there are an infinite number of monkeys trying to come up with comedic ideas on an infinite number of topics every second of every day everywhere on in the universe... No idea is ever safely yours...you have to try your best to earn it by making it yours. If your so-called friend can snag your joke rather easily, then it wasn't "yours enough"...

And if I were you, I'd stop talking comedy (or anything else) with this so-called friend of yours. Find less douchebaggy folks to become friends with.

[Alex Mac]

I think my issue at hand is that I would have far more less of an issue if he had simply asked since I don't think I was ever going to really use the joke on stage. Which begs the question "Why am I even mad at all?" and I think it mostly is just the fact that this is the second instance of this, with the first one being promptly shut down since it was material I wanted and since then, have, done onstage.

I think it is a principle thing and I'm a bit aghast on the best way to go about it since he clearly thinks he is in the right and created the material. I would have rather just had him stole it instead of also insist that he had something to do with its conception.

I enjoy working with him since our styles are so different that it keeps me on my toes. But I don't know if he fully understands the sort of unspoken laws and trusts that are attached to the comedy community since when push comes to shove, he is a bit of an outsider (He is foreign and essentially seems to consider his comedy a hobby).

Is it a difference in mindsets?

[ASR]

I write every joke with the expectation that it's already been done before. It's almost impossible to come up with something original, so I try my best to make whatever I write my own.

I have a solid opener where I say "I just got done reading the world's worst How-To guide........ To Kill A Mockingbird." It's always gotten me laughs and I've used it to open quite a few times. Just last week a friend told me that it's been done on an old episode of The Simpsons which I had never seen. Homer says something along the lines of "I swore never to read again after To Kill a Mockingbird gave me no useful advice on killing Mockingbirds!"

I then had to face a moral dilemna: did I want to drop the joke, or keep using it? In the end I kept it because I felt that I made it my own enough to warrant it being mine.

The thing is, if another comedian comes up with the exact same joke on his own accord, it's just as much as his. He has just as much of a right to it.

This would be a much more difficult problem to fix when deciding who owns the joke, and it's probably when the rules pg13 listed come into play.

Now, if I had shared that joke with the other comedian, and he went and used it, than I consider that joke theft. Whether or not he asked me, he knew that I came up with it.

I also consider it joke theft if I use a joke that I find out has been done before. I had a lot of trouble with a joke I had earlier about buying a pregnancy test and a coathanger at Wal-Mart. Not only has a strip of webcomic "xkcd" done almost the exact same joke, but Louis CK had a similar bit.
After a lot of flip-flopping, I killed the joke. Not too long afterwards, though, I ended up using it again. I'm still having trouble deciding whether or not I should hold onto it, but I feel I've made it my own and added my own spin to it, so for now I'm using it again.

There's a lot of awkward moral ground to tread in this sort of situation.

Basically, what I'm saying is, your friend sounds like a douchebag.

[MJEH]

Is it a difference in mindsets?

Depends. How "foreign" is he??

Maybe you should stop having humorous conversations with this "friend".
I know it's difficult for us to NOT inject our sense of humor into a convo,
but I'm just sayin'.

[Alex Mac]

Foreign as in from Australia and who has up until now done his comedy when he was living in Hong Kong. I enjoy his company like I said, simply because it gives me a sort of barometer regarding how some other people go about their act. I disagree with much of it but I would rather be around with someone who I disagree with sometimes than always agree with.

Case in point, he has a separate stage persona. An entirely crafted and different person who he is onstage and I fundamentally find that a bit disingenuous to the crowd. But I remember after working with Tony V. and Brian Kiley, he told me that some people build the jokes to the persona and some people (like Kiley, who is an amazing writer) build the persona to fit the jokes. So, I enjoy having someone whose approach is a bit differently driven than mine.

But that is something altogether. I think I will just have to tailor my interactions with him in the future. Has anyone else had to deal with this? In Boston, where I do most of my work, if anyone even tried this in the slightest, they'd get their asses kicked.

[aenemaTron]

Bump. This is the real one.

[Brian J.]

While we're on this topic, i wrote a bit that is the same premise as a Zack Galifianakis joke but mine is different. It was a case of parallel thinking/fishing from the same well. I don't think i'll tell it on stage but would it be stealing if i did?

His joke is something like I told my friends I'm quitting cold turkey. and they asked what are you quitting? And i said I'm f*****g quitting cold turkey!

And then mine is:

I'm addicted to cold turkey and I don't know how to quit. Maybe I should take up smoking. But then if I want to quit that- I have to go right back to cold turkey. It's quite a dilemma.

[pg13]

I'm curious, Brian...about a couple of things...

1) What do you think is the difference between Zach's joke and what you've got? How is the "joke" different?

2) How (and when) did you become aware of Zach's joke?

pg--While you work on that, I'll search for the YouTube clip of Vanilla Ice explaining how the bassline of "Ice Ice Baby" isn't the same as the bassline from "Under Pressure"--seattle

[pg13]

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[Bucky_Sinister]

In Boston, where I do most of my work, if anyone even tried this in the slightest, they'd get their asses kicked.

Boston, the home of the multiple-assed comedians.

[st.raw]

that cold turkey line is kind of a dad joke anyway

[KevinLee]

lol, bucky.

I have a joke and i was wondering if you guys have heard anyone tell it before. please humor me.

"Someone asked me if i was a cat person or a dog person and i said neither. But if i had to choose i would go with cat person because then i'd be half cat half man and id have cool powers like night vision and retractable claws. If i was a dog person my only super powers would be licking myself and humping inanimate; objects so basically nothing changes."

I ran this joke by a friend and he said that stephen wright has a joke with a similar premise but different punchline. I've looked for it online but can't seem to find it. have you guys heard that joke before? and also whoever tells it on tv first gets to keep it..

[scamboogah]

I want to say that Jeff Altman had a similar bit as well. I don't remember the specifics, but can remember him saying, "Half man, half cat. A Cat-Man".

Not very helpful.

[darrylduffy]

Demetri Martin

My friend Steve likes cats. People are always saying “Oh, Steve’s really a cat person”. No he’s not. If Steve were a cat person it’d be, like, “Hey, Steve never goes in the pool”.

i feel like he also says one similar to 'when i was a kid, my mom took me to her friend's house who she said was a cat person. that term is misleading' or something like that but i couldn't google it or listen to a cd.

[pg13]

"Wait a minute...she just LIKES cats? That's a cat LIKER."--D. Martin

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/de...ple/3518218874

[Brian J.]

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Wow i feel like Vanilla Ice. Without having had any success before being smited. But hey I'm not stealing the joke... it's a remix. Don't worry, I had no intention of telling the joke on stage (because I didn't think the crowds I deal with would get it anyway) but thanks for stopping me.

I think I heard something about the cat person thing, but you do have a different punchline maybe you can edit it somehow.

Oh and has anybody ever done something about cat burglars? Why would anyone want to steal a cat? And frankly i don't want to have to share my litter box.

Well if nobody's done that, I call it.

[Umlaut]

guys i have a joke about why dont they make the whole plane out of the black box material has it been done???????