So let's say there's this comic that's really cocky.

[Colemancoxstandup]

So let's say someone started seriously pursuing comedy at the beginning of the year. He's been writing for about four years though, as well as occasionally performing. Now let's say he's gotten pretty good. He's also recently found a voice and style he's very comfortable with. Now let's say this person thinks he deserves allot, and he's really jealous of other comics, likes to take shots at other comics and take liberties at open mics, like shining The Light when the host fails to do so. He knows, intellectually, that he shouldn't have that attitude, but it's hard to change.
What could he do to change that attitude?
Can anyone else relate to this?

[Steven_M]

What could he do to change that attitude?

Remember you're not as good as you think you are.

[pixel revolt]

He can interact with the real world more. Do more shows, make more friends, spend more time away from the internet...eventually reality will become more apparent and humble him much more than his self-aggrandizing internal dialogue ever will. Live life. Keep getting better.

[PaulC]

...Now let's say this person thinks he deserves allot...

I urge this person to always remember Clint Eastwood's line from Unforgiven: "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."

[drieux]

This person should remember that as far as 99.99% of the population is concerned, every comedian who isn't on TV is a broke-ass loser with a booze/drug problem who refuses to grow up and thinks they can pay rent by talking about wee-wee's and buttholes, and that the only people who are going to support them in their comedy in the long run - after family, friends, spouses and coworkers all think you should quit - will be the other comics, and if you treat them all like shit, eventually they'll be pretty happy to see you give up.

[nixonjames]

Everything this person thinks he's good at needs a hard, "So what?!?" afterwards.

You've found your voice and style that works.... So what?
You've got a consistent killer short game of 5min/8min/10min So what? Unless you're getting TV/Festival Auditions that's worthless. You're gonna make a living as a comedian doing Showcase fundraisers and guest spots at the club?

You've gotten a weekend spot at one of the showcase rooms... So what?
You're not getting paid and what happens once you're a regular there? Now you're taking up a weekend spot you could be working? So what're you doing to leverage this heat?

You've got some killer jokes. So what?
Is it an act? Does it flow together? Does it define who you are for the audience? Is it compelling, unique, and interesting?

From what I hear the true first test is can you crush a cold open for 20 minutes with TV clean material. If you can't, go back to work and stfu. Personally I love these guys b/c they're taking themselves out of the running for future opportunities means I don't have to compete with them.

As someone who was exceedingly overly ambitious at the start I've taken the foot off the gas in terms of seeking opportunity hard. Surprisingly I just got asked to come work for a guy's clubs in NH as a result of focusing on my act. Work on your act. Work on your act. Work on your act. Once you've got an act work on how to get seen in a positive light by EVERY CLUB in your area. Push your work til it works in every room (or most rooms, I'm not sure a Thursday at a casino in rural new england is going to be your best litmus test). The work never stops.

You've gotten passed at Club A.... So what?
You can work there once every couple of months doing the same material. Do you have a 15 min act? 20 min act? 30 min act? 45 min act? Do you even know what 'act' means for yourself?

Then add all of that together and remember that there are thousands of people in New York and LA who can say yes to basically everything I just asked, and are still fighting for stage time and slogging through bringers.

Do comedy because you love doing comedy. But it is pretty understandable to get a big head after a long struggle with insecurity. And that'll go to a lot of folks heads... Gotta remember maturity equates to years in, if he's actin a fool and he's less than 5 years old as a comedian, no shit, of course he is.

Also I'm the oldest souled 3 year performer you will prolly meet

Lastly this all boils down to the wisdom of Ice Cube... "Check yo self before you wreck yo self."

[pg13]

Now let's say this person thinks he deserves a lot

What? A self-entitled comedian? Nooooooo...

I'm pretty sure that you'll find that most comedians think that they deserve a lot. It takes a certain amount of ego strength to say "You know what? I think people should all pay money for the privilege to gather in a dark room, point their chairs towards me and listen to me, as I stand on a stage with all the lights pointed towards me and with me having the only microphone, as I say whatever I have to say." It's not surprising then that ego strength continues to other aspects of this business and the life. Occupational hazard for everyone having to navigate the comedy waters that seem filled with ego-mines.

and he's really jealous of other comics

I'm always suspicious of anyone who claims that someone else is jealous, under any circumstance. But, taken on face value...again, remember...for someone with a steroid-fueled ego, the fact that others are getting opportunities that they aren't getting is a blow to their sense of self. Not unusual for such a person to react inappropriately to the good fortunes of others.

likes to take shots at other comics

Shitting on other comics in the back of the room is a time honored tradition. Sometimes, it is friends giving their friends good natured ribbing...sometimes, if you can accept being the recipient of some timely and harsh critiques (especially when the critiques are funny, pointed barbs) you earn your stripes and are welcomed into the fold...after which you're expected to give as good as you get...sometimes, there's some shit you're not seeing about your own performance that no one feels qualified to tell you in any other way than to try to make other comedians laugh at your ineptitude.

take liberties at open mics, like shining The Light when the host fails to do so.

Not that unusual for a veteran comic who feels he's earned his place nearer the top of the pecking order to take some liberties at open mics--including getting more time than others or forcibly demanding a specific spot in the order. Also, if the light is something that is supposed to happen at a specific time and the person in charge of doing so fails to do so, then it is part of the self-policing nature of comics for someone to step up and help the comedian on stage stick to his time by stepping in to give that comic the light they were promised/expecting.



OR...alternate answer for all of these concerns...this guy's just a jerk.

He knows, intellectually, that he shouldn't have that attitude, but it's hard to change.

Change is hard. Being a better person is difficult. Knowing something and being able to act on that knowledge are two very different things.

First suggestion: Concentrate on the things that negatively impact other people first. This business is all about relationships. Relationships will get you more opportunities. If you're burning bridges and generally being toxic, stop being so selfish, own up to your shortfalls and work on being a better person to other people.

Second suggestion: Give yourself a bit of a break. Comedians are notoriously self-obsessed, picking up on and picking on flaws that others might not even be aware of. You can't be expected to be perfect when you're still figuring everything out. Don't believe that everyone else is obsessing about you or what you do. Be aware and be prepared to apologize when you step over the line...but don't flagellate yourself for shit that others might not even be noticing.

What could he do to change that attitude?

1) Grow up.
2) Fail repeatedly (should bring the ego back into check.)
3) Become ostracized by the community (assumes that flaws are egregiously worse than others in that community.)

Here's what CAN'T and WON'T happen: Anyone else changing him. People are notoriously difficult to change. They can, however, be ignored.

Can anyone else relate to this?

You're asking someone who regularly gives unrequested advice to comedians like he knows everything if he can relate to this?

Hmmmmmm...

[nixonjames]

Just work on your act. Til you have 5/8/15/25/30/45 and you're passed at multiple clubs or at least one national ones.

In you're off time give SOLICITED advice (they want it pg). We all want to hear your thoughts almost as much as our own.

Cole... are you talking about yourself? I also think this is an almost natural reaction to that moment when someone's just excited that their effect and performances have a string of good ones (something that might've not been happening for a while) so they get cocky because they've never had that before and it's not til you get that run of garbage to knock yourself down a notch.

PG. I love getting bumped by Gary Gulman, some people bitch but 20 minutes from Gulman is often way more educational than whatever shit I was gonna do. XD

[Chase Roper]

Sorry I'm so cocky everybody.

[funkyrhino]

so even thought I'm not the host I was 30 seconds away from shining the light tonight on a friend who was on stage from 8:30pm - 8:57 pm. Even though only 7 comics showed up tonight it doesn't give you the right to abuse the no time limit tonight rule.

[ErikNielsen]

Er, that's why you set a time limit. Set a longer time limit if there's more time to fill, but set a time limit. I know you weren't running the show, but that's on whoever was running the show, not on whoever took "no time limit" to mean "no time limit."

(The question of who exactly wants to do 27 minutes of material to 6 other people at an open mic remains valid.)

[funkyrhino]

Er, that's why you set a time limit. Set a longer time limit if there's more time to fill, but set a time limit. I know you weren't running the show, but that's on whoever was running the show, not on whoever took "no time limit" to mean "no time limit."

(The question of who exactly wants to do 27 minutes of material to 6 other people at an open mic remains valid.)

Agreed but the normal host is moving so he gave the open mic duties to some other guy and I said is it still 6 minutes stage time and he shrugged his shoulders and said just whatever you want to do - if you want to go longer do it. Well my friend used that to do his 30 minute jazz trumpet solo session (mocking musicians who complain of the same thing) and I said what was up with the 30 minute set and he was like I have to practice for my headlining gig so when that party of 15 walked in and took the front tables I had to work on them:
Well that wore the crowd out. By the time he was done they were a bit tired because he was 4th. So I told the host look I know you don't want to set a time limit which is a bad idea but if you're going to keep it that way then ask the guys doing longer bits to go last so that we can do our 5 minute bits before they go up.

[nixonjames]

Well around here with some of the better folks the host will tell 'em to run extra so they can run to the bathroom. Those are fun extended sets.

[Colemancoxstandup]

Maybe I was right about shining the light, then.

But, anyway. It's worrying to me that I see so many people getting chances that I'm not getting. Getting spots at the comedy club on their earliest tries when I've been going for months and blah blah blah.

I've heard so many permutations of this complaint, and I don't even feel like it's anything to worry about. It seems like it's more of a phase that allot of performers go through, but thanks in part to the responses from this forum I understand that it's a generally shared anxiety.

Soooo...

Has anyone had success at making this disappear? Any positive experiences getting out of this hole? Good places to bury bodies of local performers that I might want to get out of the way? knuck knuck knuck.

[nixonjames]

Easiest way to get over it is to just focus on your own work and continually raising you're own standards. I think it's natural for newer comics to seek approval and justification from others (i.e. club dates) but in reality they're not doing themselves a favor. Oooh you got up on a wednesday at such 'n such club. Who cares, you ate shit but you brought 5 people and they'll probably have you back.

Pay your dues, take advantage of your time, don't be a dick. I hear if you can do these 3 you'll be putting yourself in a good position to be ready for opportunity when they do come around.

I used to go through this, and to a minor extent still do, but I just try to remember that my goal is much bigger than 'getting an opportunity' I'm working on being a killer act that crushes every single time whether the audience is hot or cold. Then I'll keep pushing that goal and myself accordingly.