Open Mic question...

[Huggybeej]

So, I've been dabbling with the idea of doing some stand up, it's always been something that has been in the back of my mind since I was a kid. Well, I hit a creative overflow recently and have been writing some material and would love to try it out, however I've run into a problem...

Every open mic in Cincinnati HAS to have "PG Clean" material. Now I'm not writing material where I vividly describe 2 girls 1 cup or anything, but PG friendly, really? at a 21 and older club? Technically even TV clean comedy on the tonight show is TV-14 and that's too "Risque" for a 21 and older club with a two drink minimum. Aparently 21 year old social drinkers can't handle the word fuck. Has/is anyone else running into this?

[pg13]

Yes.

And I've also experienced open mics where 32 amateurs think that the word "cunt" is the same as having a punchline.

Aim high.

pg--If, before you've ever even tried stand-up, you feel too constrained by one admittedly arbitrary and seemingly unnecessary restriction on one show...you're likely to be very frustrated over the course of your comedy pursuit. Have you considered simply being an anarchist? I know, I know...there's no money in it...but neither is there money in being an amateur comedian who can't not say "fuck."--hardknocksburgh

[iambobbymac]

two things -

first, have you been to any open mic nights in your town where this rule is enforced? sometimes that rule might be said but is probably a bit flexible. the best thing you can do is get out there and talk to the comics and people involved who put it on to see where the line is drawn.

secondly, have you ever thought of putting on an open mic yourself? again - get out to some shows and meet other people involved in "da scene". if the rules of the venues in your town really are that strict, others might be feeling the same as you. maybe you can get together and organize a night where the rules are a little more relaxed.

[Huggybeej]

Trust me, I understand all too well that there are people who just single handedly rely on the word cunt to be "funny." The same way certain people feel the need to go, WAY over the top, because they think shocking and funny are hand in hand.

I just find it very limiting to the art of stand up to force PG material upon the comedians who are making an honest attempt to start up. Bill Hick's Censored material from Letterman, which to me and a lot of people was not over the line, wouldn't go over well in a PG material only show. I understand not wanting someone to come up on stage and go, "You know who's a goddamn fucking cunt?" But to limit material, and not be able to use jokes that ride the line of "PG-13" seems a bit much to me.

[Huggybeej]

You make a good point Bobby Mac, and I was considering trying to find some Comedians around the area, and maybe doing my own Open Mic. Cincinnati is dead as far as anything entertainment goes, and maybe that'll open the door for some people who want to try comedy. Maybe even get some people to travel here (4 cities within a 2 hour drive, 1 in under an hour) to do something fresh as far as comedy goes.

[ErikNielsen]

Or you could try doing the jokes you have that don't involve swearing at these open mics. Maybe you've written 10 jokes, and you can only do jokes 1 through 7 or 1 through 8. It's a little frustrating, but if I were you, I'd see how it goes. Maybe you'll find the restrictions don't bother you at all. Maybe you'll find you don't like doing stand-up anyway. Maybe you'll find that in practice, the clubs have more leeway than the official rules state. Maybe you'll be successful enough to start getting booked shows. Either way, there's a lot of stuff you can learn.

I mean, nothing personal, but the idea of a comedian who's never even tried stand-up hosting a show (even an open mic) does not fill me with boundless confidence. (Honestly, it's not about you. I'm saying hosting a show is tough, and any comic without a bunch of on-stage experience is going to have trouble managing the momentum.) And trust me -- if your main pitch to comics involves the fact that swearing is allowed, you're going to have to deal with a lot of stuff. Where by "stuff", I mean "horrible open micers who are swearing for swearing's sake".

I mean, not even saying it's a bad idea in the long run, but if you're going to have a successful open mic, you want to draw from the pool of new comics already working in the city. And the easiest way to do that is to go to the existing open mics, do the jokes you can do, and make those connections.

[pg13]

the art of stand up

...has NOTHING whatsoever to do with an absolute beginner at an open mic.

pg--I sincerely hope you don't do any pg13 material. It's bad enough that I do it. But, if the place that's offering you a free place to try and learn how to do something you've always dreamed about doing wants you to keep it clean...I'd hope that you'd realize that they're teaching you a very valuable lesson...about how the business of comedy isn't really about you.--harshrealityville

[funkyrhino]

and I was considering trying to find some Comedians around the area, and maybe doing my own Open Mic. Cincinnati is dead as far as anything entertainment goes

Lots of great amateur comics in Cincinnati. There's a pretty good scene there. I don't like Go Bananas Amateur policy of having 'Bringer' shows that are PG clean though. Sucks if you're travelling from another area and want to do an open mic at a place that request you to bring others.

[ErikNielsen]

Oh, don't do bringer shows. There's never an excuse for bringer shows of any kind.

[beccaBeccaBECCA]

Oh, don't do bringer shows. There's never an excuse for bringer shows of any kind.

Funniest thing I've heard about bringer shows and open mics comes from Mike Lawrence (via Carol Hartsell on Twitter): "They just left a mic to go to a bringer show. That's the Dante's Inferno of bad comedy."

Also, if any of you are on Twitter, Carol Hartsell often live-tweets her rounds at open mics around NYC to depressing, disheartening, and hilarious effect. Check it out under this hashtag: #iloveanopenmic. Good stuff.

[AceHole]

I'd just use the PG policy as a sort of challenge. Hopefully it'll drive you to write better and be more creative. I've been trying to write all-clean material and i think it helps me write more creatively. I don't fall back on just having the punchline be "cunt". I only use it in the setups now. And some tags.

[iambobbymac]

I mean, nothing personal, but the idea of a comedian who's never even tried stand-up hosting a show (even an open mic) does not fill me with boundless confidence.

i didn't necessarily mean that he should be hosting & running it, but my point was to get involved and meet other comics. & maybe he could be part of a new comedy / open mic night that could better serve the entire city. im just a very big believer in people bettering their community by being pro-active.

this thread is making me feel a little self conscious for not having a joke where the punchline is "cunt"

[ErikNielsen]

Well, sure -- but I guess my point was that you can't really better your community unless you're part of your community.

And there's a huge difference there. Open mics are frequently depressing. Bringer shows are invariably unethical.

[Travesty.]

With my limited experience(I've only been doing this for 3-4 months), is that I've been able to do the same jokes that I can anywhere, I just "shine" them up a bit. Of course you gotta leave out the swearing, but you also have to put emphasis on different words, and just practice them a bit off-stage to make sure you know the flow of how the new cleaner joke should sound. I mean, you should be able to do most of your jokes, unless you're doing nothing but dick-jokes, or telling people about all the hookers you've killed, than I don't see why you can't just censor your stuff. And if you can't, than do the next thing, and write some newer jokes that are clean....it wouldn't really hurt. It's practicing your writing skills, and of course, you need to learn the stage, so I don't see why you shouldn't attempt both.

Anyways, it's just a thought. If I were you, I would get out of the habit of making excuses. Sure, you may not like to do certain things, but in the beginning, you need to try to get on stage no matter what it takes....for the most part, at least.

[Just Brett]

So, I've been dabbling with the idea of doing some stand up, it's always been something that has been in the back of my mind since I was a kid. Well, I hit a creative overflow recently and have been writing some material and would love to try it out, however I've run into a problem...

Every open mic in Cincinnati HAS to have "PG Clean" material. Now I'm not writing material where I vividly describe 2 girls 1 cup or anything, but PG friendly, really? at a 21 and older club? Technically even TV clean comedy on the tonight show is TV-14 and that's too "Risque" for a 21 and older club with a two drink minimum. Aparently 21 year old social drinkers can't handle the word fuck. Has/is anyone else running into this?

Man, being clean makes you a better writer. Check this guy out. He's a christian minister but tells great stories... this one had me laughing out loud, and I don't type LoL, ever...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWH-VToohro

[Huggybeej]

Thanks for all the advice/responses guys.

These shows that are PG clean I'm complaining about are bringer shows (forgot to mention that). But I understand what everyone's saying to censoring words, and how clean material makes you a stronger writer, and I get that, I really do. My biggest qualms is more along the lines of being limited in the fact that, say you wrote a great bit, something you're really excited about but the material isn't PG, it just sucks that you can't even try it out there.

As far as setting up open mics on my own, it isn't so I would host, and I never even imagined I would be the host, and headliner. All I was thinking was getting comedians together, and doing open mics to attempt material in front of an audience that wants to be there, not people you HAVE to bring, and hope no one flakes. All I really am looking for is some kind of scene here, something to be involved in that doesn't have those limitations of, You have to bring 5 people or you can't perform, and they have to buy two things on the over priced menu, and a place to be creative and be allowed to try jokes that may curse.

[pg13]

ADVANCED WARNING: Extended rant on comedy business below.

Why do open mics exist?

Open mics exist because you have to give new comedians a place to learn the craft so they can replace the comedians who either move on from your scene or age out of their position in the scene.

It is a value investment in the future.

My question has always been...why would non-comedians come to an open mic?

For the life of me, I've never understood the attraction...(if I enjoy a nice steak, I certainly wouldn't go to a slaughterhouse...I'd go to a steakhouse)...other than for excited comics to inspire their curious friends to see them try something they haven't quite mastered yet.

So, if you're running a business...and only interested in your nightly bottom line...it would be easy to look at a comedy open mic and see a nightmare. Comics will come...but they will often only drink free waters, coffees and sodas (or get so drunk that they implode on stage). Some will have friends and bring them...but a lot don't and won't. And it's a hard sell to the general public "Please come to a seemingly endless parade of comedians who don't know what they're doing...many of them choosing to go dirty to get some sort of a reaction...and only occasionally will the trainwreck become sublime."

So, I understand that such a business would like better control of the variables: make the comedians adhere to a certain level of tolerable-ness when it comes to material, make the comedians bring actual paying customers, make those customers buy enough food and drink to cover overhead.

That's a business that knows one essential fact that Huggybeej doesn't...that open mic isnt about you. They don't care that your artistic opportunities are being limited. To them, you're not worth anything...yet. If you refuse to do these things, you are easily replaced and not missed...

You only become important to them once you rise above the rest to become "worth" something.

That's how it often is...and everyone needs to understand that.

However, I disagree with it on several fronts. The only way that bringer shows exist is because comedians tolerate them...because new comedians are so desperate for stagetime that they'll do anything to get it--which makes them vulnerable to scams and being taken advantage of... And make no mistake, making YOU do the work of putting paying customers in the seats of their restaurant/bar for the chance for you to, unpaid, present your artistic ability as the entertainment draw of their business...is you being taken advantage of...

More and more, comedians are spreading the word--don't do bringer shows. Maybe there shouldn't be those cattle call open mics, where anyone with a few friends can get stage time. Maybe, if bringer shows weren't "easy"...comedy club managers would stop being so lazy and start to care about properly shepherding new talent...and maybe they'd recognize that open mics can and should be a value investment. And maybe, this new care and feeding would lead to a better project...a night of exciting and promising new faces, instead of the endless drag of anyone willing to prostitute themselves for a few minutes on stage.

That said...my advice regarding open mics is: use the available stage time to learn what you can.

Only you can tell if it is worth enough to your development versus your relationships with your friends (because, once the initial excitement wears off, your friends will quickly tire of being used...)...to suffer the indignities of a bringer. Only you can tell if there's value in learning, quickly, how to adapt your comedic ideas to the demands of the places giving you the opportunity to perform (and I'd argue that it is...because there will ALWAYS be some limitations to your whims and desires to perform comedy. I mean, you may want to do comedy longer than the time limit that a club gives you, you may want to do comedy where you can perform only for people who like particular topics or know certain things...or are even paying attention. What open mics can teach you is how to handle essential disappointments...and a healthy respect for the inherently imperfect comedy world you'll live in for the entirety of your comedy career.)

Another thing that open mics can do is thin the herd. Best to learn early that comedy is hard, unfair and not nearly romantic as you imagine it to be in your head. Being demanding that things be perfect for you before you've even set foot on stage is a sign that you've got some things to learn...and some expectations that need re-imagining.

The truth is...nobody needs you. Nobody needs to give you stage time, nobody needs to let you express your "brilliant-in-your-own-head" ideas, nobody needs to make things easy for you. There is, and always will be, too many of "you". Those who are serious, who put in the time...who learn...who improve...THOSE performers will suddenly find that "bringer rules" suddenly don't apply to them anymore...and those performers can earn the respect of those who might have corporate gigs (where the ability to exhibit impulse control and tailor material to the audience) to offer, earlier than others might be offered...and those performers start to get quicker opportunities to work real shows in front of real, unbringered audiences, and possibly for actual money.

And the rest could fade away without much regret. (Comedy isn't pretty. It will test your endurance and your tolerance.)

pg--Agreed to perform on a bringer show coming up, against my better judgment. I agreed because it was made clear that I, personally, don't have to bring anyone...but I should be standing up for my less experienced comedy brothers who do... This would, however, be my first time working this particular club and with the local club scene in chaos, it's time for me to make certain I have a choice of places to play on a fairly regular basis. Again, it's a choice I'm making...to accept certain limitations, knowing what I expect to gain from the opportunity. I'll see what it's like and make future decisions with an increased knowledge. I'd hate to encourage the infestation of bringer shows in a market that has, for the most part, rejected it until now...--seattle

[funkyrhino]

I love that break down.

We have shows in my city (yes I'm the mayor) of Louisville, KY at the Caravan that are non-bringer, no drink minimum requirements. It's basically Show Up and Go Up (which it is also called) and it's in the smaller room no bigger than a big bedroom; the show is run usually twice a month on a Tuesday night (deadest night of the week) and is a good start for virgins and amateurs. However you're usually doing your act in front of about 5-9 people on those nights...about 5 beginning comics and the rest girlfriends, a wife and some guy who was bored but wanted to go out and drink. I have seen nights of 20-30 people but for the most part there's about 10 people max.

The used to run these shows every week but the turnout was low and the waitress was usually bored out of her mind so they switched it to once or twice a week. If you do well enough over time you're sometimes asked to the Weds, or Thurs shows - shows which usually follow the show of a touring headliner; (instead of opening for featuring for the headliner you go on after the headliner is done) It gives you a chance to rub elbows however 90 percent of the elbows you'll rub is someone who is a comedian for CMT (country music television), Gallagher or Etta May ie a majority of the touring acts appeal to those who work at the Ford Truck Plant.

The other club is The Improv which is also a non-bringer but does have a two drink minimum for guest and is also run once a month. A lot more diverse acts perform at Improv, from Brian Posehn, Greg Giraldo, Whitney Cummings, Michael Ian Black, etc.

I understand the whole idea behind running a business, however I do wonder how you pull it off if you want to visit another city and try their open mics if they are bringer shows and you don't know a soul from that city.

[pg13]

I do wonder how you pull it off if you want to visit another city and try their open mics if they are bringer shows and you don't know a soul from that city.

Do your research and ask ahead of time.

The novelty of being from out of town can often be a golden ticket.

A lot of clubs add "bringer" clauses to their open mic because they're tired of seeing the same people who use the club for stage time but add nothing to the value of the club--they don't pay for drinks, they don't tip the waitresses for bringing them sodas or waters, they never have any friends come to see them...and sometimes clubs can get frustrated with that and thus, out comes the "bringer" club to smash them over the head with... You, breezing in from somewhere exotic, have never been a tiresome problem for them...you're welcome without being bashed in the head.

(And, of course, you know enough to be very thankful for the opportunity...you'll tip the waitress for anything they bring you--including free stuff--and you'll make certain to say something nice about the whole experience afterward.)

It won't always work--but if you ask nicely in advance and don't "expect to be treated a certain way"...I've found most clubs to be friendly and positive about it. (Of course, it helps to be a working professional comedian from a decent-sized city/scene. Taking your "been on stage two times ever, both back in Neenah, Wisconsin" act on the road to Gotham in New York...probably won't get you much credit in heaven.

New York, Los Angeles (and to some extent, Chicago) have entire INDUSTRIES built on keeping open mic'rs working the bringer/barker circuit...and thus, you, as an out-of-towner, have no novelty value for them.

On the other hand, one of my favorite comedy clubs in the entire world, ACME in Minneapolis, has an unstated policy that if you're in from out of town for the first time, you're pretty much guaranteed to get on their sold-out and always amazing Monday night open mic.

pg--Another tip...make friends with comics in as many scenes as possible...including the people you meet here on AST. They'll help guide you through the maze of their local scene...and can sometimes hold your hand as you walk right past the gatekeepers at the door of wherever the local open mic is...--seattle

[ErikNielsen]

Legitimate clubs don't run bringer shows. It's as simple as that. I am given to understand it is different in New York, but who knows anyway? It is not different in Los Angeles.