The Move to New York / LA / Chicago

[MikThrontveit]

I moved there with about $1000. I was fortunate enough to find a place on the Upper West Side (96th) for $700/mo for a room and a shitty 7-3 $10/hr job and was able to ride it out for 9-10 months. BUT I was too broke to afford open mics, which at that time cost about $5 for 5 min, but a lot of times included the requirement to buy a $5-7 drink as well. I heard a few months back that there are 14 Free open mics a week now, so that is promising. Unable to afford an open mic everyday, I'd hit around 3-4 a month, but what really really really helped was watching all the free shows around town in the bars and at UCB. I never paid a dime to see comedy in NYC other than the donation to the bucket of truth (or the bar equivalent) at the end of the show. NO, sorry, I paid $5 to see Eugene Mirman's weekly show 4-5 times.

Anyway, I had to move back because I quit my shitty job in a huff (couldn't find another one) and decided to take a job back home, that should set me up for a more comfortable return to NY in 2013.

I'd hesitantly say to do it anyway, because you're in your early 20's and NY is the greatest. I don't regret a second of the daily pain in the ass it is living in NY with very little or no money.

BUT I'd also agree with everyone else and say to wait and save money and practice as much as you can before going out there. The community is very supportive and you're honestly doing most shows in front of other open mic comics, not "industry" types scouting for Letterman or whatever.

[Ravi]

I'm 27, live in Dallas and have been doing stand-up for about 5 years. I write and direct sketches, and I want to pursue a TV/film writing career, so I've been contemplating the move to LA. But over the past few months I've changed the direction of my stand-up to be longer and include more personal stuff, as opposed to the mostly one-liners I've been doing so far. Before I move anywhere I want to be get better at writing and performing that kind of material. In a sense I'm starting over, but this time I don't have as steep a learning curve as when I was first starting. I figure I'm at least about a year from moving to LA, if I decide to do that. I don't really want to move to LA, but everything I hear from writers says that you have to go there eventually if you want to pursue it.

I've thought about moving to Austin, though I (rightly or wrongly) decided that it would be a lateral move. New York is great for stand-up, though it doesn't seem to the place for aspiring TV and film writers and filmmakers.

[ErikNielsen]

Yeah, I wouldn't ever move to LA to do stand-up. Even the "good" rooms here are frequently a hassle.

Granted, there are a few one-nighters that are consistently really good, but you can't build any kind of act out of a half-dozen rooms that can only offer you one seven-minute spot every 4-6 months.

And even if the clubs love you, you'll be lucky to get up more than once every month or two. There are just too many good comics here -- even if you're awesome and have a following, the club knows hundreds of other awesome comics with followings, so they end up cycling through them before they get back to you.

So in order to make up the numbers, you're forced to hustle your way through a variety of small shows -- some of which are well-meaning shows run by good people but not really trying very hard to attract the kind of crowd a comic needs to really get some serious work done, others of which are irrelevant hives of nepotism in which open-micers watch open-micers and nobody learns anything, and so on. (And even if the bookers are trying to book the former, the people they book are all too willing to turn a show into the latter. The attitude in this city is toxic -- so many LA "comics" are more interested in hanging out with their friends than really making comedy and entertaining an audience, and that shows.)

And did I mention that all this requires you to hustle? It's one thing to ask three times, wait patiently, and come out when you're not booked in order to get onto the best shows in the city. But as often as not, you have to do the same thing for some show in the back room of a bar with 10 audience members -- even if you've already done the show and killed.

But yeah, if you want to get acting or writing work, you mostly have to be here. Which explains the glut of comics.

[Travesty.]

I started doing comedy in Knoxville, TN, and then when I decided to do it full time, moved to Chicago. I've only been here a few months, but it's a great city with plenty of public transportation, and everybody is really supportive. You can get up every night, and sometimes, multiple times a night.

I heard Seattle has a good scene, but do what you want. I moved, cause it's impossible to do more than 6-7 open mics in Knoxville within a month, unless you wanna travel to Atlanta, Nashville, or Kentucky. All of which are over 200+ miles away. It was hard on the time it took to drive, and the gas prices to make a 400+ mile round trip to most likely bomb with 6 minutes of stage time.

[robbycola]

Erik, what do you consider the "good" rooms in Los Angeles?

[ErikNielsen]

No comment. If I start naming names, I'm going to leave someone out (accidentally or otherwise).

[Neon]

Okay sooo, what if I want to become a Television writer and the live comedy I do is more sketch/improv based? I am 21, living in Chicago, and I plan to move to LA during Fall 2013. I plan to go out there with a writing packet I can be proud of, 3 filmed 12 minute "pilots", and a solo sketch show.

What do you guys think about that? I really like Chicago, but I feel like the comedy ceiling here ultimately is low. I know some people in LA from school and (if all goes according to plan) I'll be moving there with a director friend. I guess the plan would be to start UCB right away, do live shows where ever I can, and try to get my packet out there as much as possible.

Thoughts?

[ErikNielsen]

How close are you to the ceiling in Chicago? It's not worth it to say "there's a limit to how far you can go" if you're not even particularly close to that limit. The limit for sketch/improv in Chicago is just about as high as anywhere, I'm pretty sure.

I'd ask myself this -- "have I developed enough of a reputation in Chicago that venues in LA will care about it?" Because if not, you're basically starting from scratch. On the other hand, if you haven't developed enough of a reputation in Chicago that venues care, there may be little or no net loss. And if you're viewing sketch/improv as basically a hobby/something you're doing for yourself/networking (which is probably a wise choice for improv... you can advance your career with sketch, but the industry generally does not care if you do improv), and your real goal is to write for TV, of course you get out to LA when you can.

Side note: I'm not sure what you'd do with a 12-minute pilot, unless you're trying to pitch a 15-minute series to Adult Swim, or some other irregular structure. In the event that someone buys a half-hour show from you, they're going to buy it based on a 22-minute script, because otherwise what do they know about your grasp of plot structure? For that matter, I'm not sure filming the script(s) is the best way to go either... that occasionally works out (I know "It's Always Sunny" got picked up based on a self-produced pilot, and I'm sure it's not the only one), but it's just as likely to backfire based on low production values/the wrong actors/etc. Still, if you're filming 36 minutes, I'd suggest making 1-2 full-length pilots over 3 things nobody can use.

[Neon]

Hm, the idea behind filming pilots (and I'd try my hardest to make them all look very pretty) would just kind of be like "see, here's some ideas I was able to develop past the writing stage". Like a tag in addition to having spec scripts and other original written material. I guess my base idea was that people don't have the patience to watch a 22 minute pilot. Maybe that's dumb. Maybe it would be better to have like, a 12 minute pilot (for Adult Swim esque things), a full length, and maybe another full length?

I am not close to the ceiling in Chicago, I probably sounded arrogant saying the ceiling is low. I just meant the comedy entertainment ceiling as compared to places like LA where people are working on large scale projects. Venues in LA certainly wouldn't care about me. It would probably take years and years (I've only been at it for 3) for that to happen. I'm fine with "starting over" in LA, because I mean, I'm bringing the skill set I gained from doing live comedy in Chicago. The goal would be to go over there and make them care.

Also I don't really view sketch/improv as just a hobby. It's something I work very hard at and I can't see myself not doing some kind of live comedy project even if I was on a writing staff.

I'd like to get feedback on something else as well. Right now I'm working on a monthly variety show that I'm at the head of creatively. The structure is like, 10 minutes of the show, an act, 10 minutes of the show, an act, 10 minutes of the show. The show part is kind of like a late night show format but with way more bits (no interviews or anything). We open our first show soon, and if all goes well I'd be running it until I moved. I was also planning on bringing that to LA, like the idea of hosting a monthly show where I'm booking people but also doing original content. Is it easy to find venues for that?

Thanks for the feedback so far, I really appreciate it. As much as I'd like to think I know, I know that in general I have no idea about how to make it in comedy. Any thoughts are welcome and helpful.

[ErikNielsen]

Hm, the idea behind filming pilots (and I'd try my hardest to make them all look very pretty) would just kind of be like "see, here's some ideas I was able to develop past the writing stage". Like a tag in addition to having spec scripts and other original written material. I guess my base idea was that people don't have the patience to watch a 22 minute pilot.

Are you trying to get a job as a writer or as a producer? In the former case, "some ideas I was able to develop past the writing stage" isn't really relevant.

This isn't a job interview -- it's not about you. The industry isn't generally thinking "ah, we're going to hire this guy because we think he could do a project." They're thinking "we're going to buy this project." So you need to show them the project itself, in whatever form you choose to make of it. If that's a script, cool. If that's a filmed thing, maybe also cool, maybe not necessary? I mean, people employ script readers, not video watchers.

In any event, if they don't have the patience to look at what they're buying, they certainly don't have the patience to dig through something that's not what they're buying. If you're pitching a show to a network/etc., and you start showing them all kinds of unrelated stuff, they're going to think you're a scattered amateur.

(Other projects might help you get representation -- to a certain extent, though not THAT great an extent, "this guy could do something" is relevant to an agent or a manager. But again, if you're not trying to get work as a producer or director, nobody is going to expect you to produce or direct your own stuff. The script really should be enough, really.)

I am not close to the ceiling in Chicago, I probably sounded arrogant saying the ceiling is low. I just meant the comedy entertainment ceiling as compared to places like LA where people are working on large scale projects. Venues in LA certainly wouldn't care about me. It would probably take years and years (I've only been at it for 3) for that to happen. I'm fine with "starting over" in LA, because I mean, I'm bringing the skill set I gained from doing live comedy in Chicago. The goal would be to go over there and make them care.

If you expect people to care about what you're doing, stay in Chicago. It's honestly a much better place to get to that point... nobody cares about anything in LA. It's way too big for anyone to care about anything. In Chicago, people have the time to work with promise and develop it... LA has people ready to go, and too many of them already.

Also I don't really view sketch/improv as just a hobby. It's something I work very hard at and I can't see myself not doing some kind of live comedy project even if I was on a writing staff.

So how does that tie into what you hope to do professionally? Are you interested in writing for a sketch show? Are there any professional applications for improv? "Hobby" is a kind of harsh way of putting it, but I'd say that improv is at best adjunct to whatever is going to get you into the business.

Right now I'm working on a monthly variety show... is it easy to find venues for that?

Yes and no. You can probably rent a small theater or something, or make a deal with some terrible coffee-shop venue or something, but a good rule of thumb is this: if it's a good venue, either a) someone already has a show there, or b) they don't want to book comedy shows there, or c) someone had a comedy show there, failed to draw a crowd, and ruined it for everyone. You don't want to be that last option, and it's tough to get anyone out to anything in LA, even if you're pretty established -- and how are you going to book people who are a draw when you don't have local connections? So I'd probably cool it on running my own show until people knew who I was. Not a bad idea necessarily, just a premature one... you don't want to be drawing attention to yourself from other comedians until you're completely ready.

(And if it makes you feel any better, I don't have any idea "how to make it in comedy" either, and I feel like most of the people who "know how to make it in comedy" are kind of con artists. If they were doing good work, they wouldn't need to "know how to make it in comedy", would they?)

[mattmanser]

Are you trying to get a job as a writer or as a producer? In the former case, "some ideas I was able to develop past the writing stage" isn't really relevant.

This isn't a job interview -- it's not about you. The industry isn't generally thinking "ah, we're going to hire this guy because we think he could do a project." They're thinking "we're going to buy this project." So you need to show them the project itself, in whatever form you choose to make of it.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I think it is more like "we're going to hire this guy to be on staff because we think he can do this based on the writing samples we've seen," since a new writer would very rarely sell a project.

[ErikNielsen]

Well, if you're looking for a staff position, you want samples that actually have some connection to the staff you're trying to work for -- sketches for a sketch show, (full-length) specs for a scripted series, monologue jokes if that's what you're trying to do. I feel like the only time a filmed presentation would be even potentially relevant is if you were trying to pitch your own project. And as I was saying, I feel the only way a 12-minute sample (in script form or otherwise) would be relevant is if you were trying to get a job on the staff of a 12-minute show.

[mattmanser]

I haven't had too many meetings with higher-up-types (producers, managers), but I have definitely had some where they would have looked at a short pilot video as a sample. Really, it can't hurt. Scripts are a higher priority, but if you have the script ready and the time/means to shoot something, why not?

[ErikNielsen]

As I said, managers are another story. Agents, managers, etc.

[Neon]

I haven't had too many meetings with higher-up-types (producers, managers), but I have definitely had some where they would have looked at a short pilot video as a sample. Really, it can't hurt. Scripts are a higher priority, but if you have the script ready and the time/means to shoot something, why not?

What kinds of meetings have you had? What were they for?

And yeah I am definitely going to shoot some pilots. If anything because I know enough talented people to have them made well, and it is gratifying to shoot things, and I don't think having filmed projects is going to hurt me.

[KevinLee]

irrelevant hives of nepotism in which open-micers watch open-micers and nobody learns anything.

Thank you for articulating this so accurately. It's good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.