Lowering Expectations

[mikemayberry]

I started stand up about a year ago. I go to open mics at least once a week and I think I am starting to sound more like a comic. I have asked for guest spots and have been turned down by several clubs. I want to take stand up seriously, but I don't want to give it another 3 or 4 years of hitting open mics and not getting any time in front of actual audiences before finally realizing that I am not gonna go anywhere.

So my question is how do you manage your aspirations? And how do you know the difference between sucking because you are new and sucking because it is not for you? I like doing it, but I feel like I am as good as other open mic-ers that are getting more stage time with about as much experience as I have.

I have failed to meet my goals for my first year -get a few guest spots at clubs - so I am giving myself another year.

What about you?

[mike_b]

I dunno, man. I'm doing this because it's fun. If anything comes out of it, then great.

Just make as many comedian friends as you can. Then maybe you can put on your own show, at the very least.

Sisters doin' it for themselves.

[pg13]

I have failed to meet my goals for my first year -get a few guest spots at clubs - so I am giving myself another year.

Why not just quit?

You gave it a shot, you didn't meet your goals...why not just pack it in now?

What's so magical about your arbitrarily chosen "one year goal" that would dissuade you from continuing to pursue something you really really feel compelled to do...unless you don't, unless you only want to do this if you are good at it and that you'd be willing to walk away without looking back if you don't meet some sort of success in a self-announced amount of time?

Why not just save yourself the trouble and stop now?

In "Comic Insights", Elaine Boosler said that she bombed for five years. FIVE YEARS! She only stayed with it because of something Andy Kaufman told her, "This is what it's supposed to be. You're in a tunnel, there's a light at the end of the tunnel...and if you don't keep going, you'll end up in the tunnel."

I'm sure there are performers who tried stand-up a couple of times...or for a couple of months...or even for a whole lot of years...who never got out of the tunnel. Never figured it out...but that's STILL what it's supposed to be. It's not easy, predictable or even fair.

But, if you have it in your heart that comedy is something you are compelled to pursue...then you'll do it. You couldn't imagine not doing it. You couldn't live without it.

And if you don't have that feeling...you're kind of in the way. If you're just here to "see what it might be like" and could stop doing comedy if you don't have success in a certain amount of time, then really, you're stealing valuable experience away from those who DO want it...and you're probably wasting the audience's time, too. You're a tourist, getting in the way of people who are living their lives.

Pursue comedy how you want...that's the glory of it. But be self-aware enough to understand what it takes...and how many people want the same things you want...and learn that you can't expect the world to march to your drumbeat...to fit into your preconceived schedules and plans.

If you're not getting guest spots, and you want to get guest spots, find out why...don't just bide your time until you can throw in the towel. Or search your heart to find out why guest spots are more important than your continued progress and development as a comic (where, generally, opportunities will usually come when you're ready for them...)

Or take matters into your own hands. Don't wait for someone to anoint you with acceptance--if you're not getting on shows and you think you're good enough to get those opportunities, then make your own opportunities! Create your own shows.

Comedy is the WORST place for someone who expects things to be handed to them when they want them. There are too many comedians and too few opportunities...and none of it is ever purely fair.

...but honestly, search your heart...examine how bad you really want this... You probably won't deserve a guest spot until you stop making that achievement a prerequisite for you bothering to keep going with comedy.

And if you can imagine being able to stop...why wait?

pg--Not trying to be snarky. Trying to challenge your process.--pacific northwest

[mikemayberry]

@mike b, I have done a couple bar shows, and I will keep doing them because they are fun. I am totally with you on that. I do not feel the same about open mics that are full of other open mic-ers that have already heard my one good joke several times.

@pg, as always, you are an awesome devils advocate. I don't have a good reason not to quit now. That gave me something to think about. And my problem isn't that I am bombing all the time, like boosler, my problem is that I don't see a lot of value in going up and saying the same thing, to the same guys, a couple nights a week.

Thanks guys.

[CarolineEAnd]

Everything that PG said, PLUS

Don't limit your comedy to stand-up. While I've done alright as a performer, it's writing that's gotten me much father and while it's great to have 20 people think you're funny right in front of you, imagine how it would feel if millions read something funny you wrote online? Of course, millions haven't read what I've written, but dozens have and they like it and it's helped me have a frame of reference so I can show people what I have to offer (rather than the old "You're a comedian? Tell me a joke" deal).

If you can't get spots on stage, you can get web space for nearly free. Do funny videos, write funny things, exercise your comedy muscle. Not that just having a website will make you famous, but it will help you with the breadth of your comedy and can get you noticed if you do it right.

[pg13]

my problem is that I don't see a lot of value in going up and saying the same thing, to the same guys, a couple nights a week.

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this..."
"So, stop doing that..."

All of those individual elements can be changed. Your problem, really, is that you're not taking ownership of your situation.

Don't like saying the same thing? Don't. Write new stuff. Challenge your improv skills. Whatever it takes to get out of your rut. You're going to need a ton of material eventually...if you're sick of refining what you have, work on volume for awhile.

Don't like performing for the same people? Don't. Find new places to play. Spend a little time trying to get new people to come to see you where you are... Be willing to travel for new experiences.

Don't like performing a couple of times a week? Don't. Give yourself time to recharge your batteries--live a life that's worth sharing with others, as that'll feed your writing. Or vary it up. Go a bunch for awhile...then go only once a week...

Obviously, if you stop, it's harder to start back up. But if you hate it, it's harder to learn anything...impossible to improve. You need to get some miles on you, certainly...and it won't always be fun while you're doing that...but it shouldn't be absolute torture either. You have no one to answer to but yourself and what you want to do.

pg--Are these things easy to do? No. Who ever said any of this was going to be easy? In fact, the best thing about it being hard is that it tends to drive out the people who only want it to be easy. That said...what has the alt-comedy scene been but the ultimate proof that you don't have to do things the way that they're done just because that's how they've been done...you can do things to help you do what you want, how you want...if you're willing to work at it and make it happen.--pacific northwest

[MJEH]

I go to open mics at least once a week and I think I am starting to sound more like a comic. I want to take stand up seriously, but I don't want to give it another 3 or 4 years of hitting open mics and not getting any time in front of actual audiences before finally realizing that I am not gonna go anywhere. I like doing it, but I feel like I am as good as other open mic-ers that are getting more stage time with about as much experience as I have. I have failed to meet my goals for my first year -get a few guest spots at clubs - so I am giving myself another year.

You don't need to read "pg-13"'s yawnfest to answer your question. The answer lies within yourself-your courage, self-respect, and personal motivation to succeed. People set goals all the time for various accomplishments; maybe yours need a slight readjustment to something more easily attainable. You went on stage and presented yourself to total strangers; this is an accomplishment in itself! As in all things: work achieves results. Don't stop now, you'll be happier if you continue.

[funkyrhino]

The truth is you don't know where you will go or end up. I've been dancing since I was 23. I'm 43 now. I've never been paid more than $200 for dancing but it's something that I enjoy doing so much that I'm not going to stop just because I'm a no name. I just love to do it.
A few of my friends started where I was. Dancing to just dance. One of them took a chance and decided to move from Nashville to Los Angeles, worked 2 jobs just to be able to afford to stay out there because he wanted to dance in LA more than he wanted to move back home. He moved in 2006. His drive and motivation kept him focused and now he has a spot in Step Up 3-D out this weekend. He also teaches at Debbie Reynolds studio and danced with a troupe that was on Ellens show. He was never guaranteed to make it but he took the chance anyway.

At one point he told me he was ready to quit and move back to Nashville BUT he never would've stopped dancing! Read that again.

I'm not a big fan of Cedric the Entertainers standup but something he said stuck in an interview. He said he just wanted to be good enough to be a middle act. That's really all he wanted. He wasn't even hell bent on being famous or even a headliner, just someone that could get a paycheck being a middle act for other bigger names in comedy.
So what do you really want to do I guess that's what I'm asking...

are your expectations realistic? It would be unrealistic for any of us on this forum to play basketball 8 hours a day in pursuit of a dream to play in the NBA. That's a special type of talent but it's not unrealistic for us to practice so we can play and enjoy the game of basketball be it pick up games in the park or a rec league.
It's unrealistic to think you'll have a career parallel to Richard Pryor but it's not unrealistic to strive to be a good comedian with the tangible possibility of becoming a good working opening act or middle act eventually paying your dues to a headlining gig.
So what do you want to do?

[AceHole]

I know how you feel. I've been doing stand up for a year as well and honestly I haven't thought about quitting in the last sixth months. I too feel like I'm getting pretty good reactions from crowds and am starting to sound more like a comic, but honestly I don't feel like that matters.

The main thing that keeps me going is writing better and more creative jokes. I can tell the difference between my writing from when I started (short one or two line jokes) and now (two weeks ago I wrote a four minute story that I've been perfecting). That's what keeps me going. I want to see what I will come up with next. I can't help but think that any day I'll write a new great joke and i want to be ready and be able to recognize it when I do. I feel like quitting now would be like reading a book that took you a year, and just when you're ready to unveil a big plot twist you stop reading. The plot twist may be revealed tomorrow, and it may be five years from now, but you know that it will happen eventually. That's the way that I feel about my writing, and that's what keeps me going. I do it almost more for myself than I do any reaction from a crowd.

I feel like a lot of comics put a lot of stock in how they do at an open mic. How good of reactions they get and how a joke works. I think I heard it from a Patton Oswalt interview when he said that the biggest misconception that he had was that what he did in his first five years mattered. The first five years he said is all about learning your way around the stage and finding a voice. The material you do after five years will most likely be totally different than what you did when you started and this keeps me going as well.

You said you don't want to do 3 or 4 years of open mics if it's not going to lead anywhere. My feeling is I won't let myself go 3 or 4 years without going anywhere. I try to put less stock on where I perform or who I perform for as long as I do perform and I learn every time I perform. I've performed for five people (last night) and I've performed for 100 people (two months ago). I've performed in a loud bar and I've performed at a quiet comedy club. I learn something from each experience and each time I don't perform.

I guess I don't know when I'm going to stop, if ever. I think the time for me to stop will be when I stop learning. When I go up on a stage and I think to myself "I know everything right now, there's nothing new, there's nothing to learn." That's why I like stand up so much. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on it, but I can still learn something every night. As long as there's something I don't know about stand up, I'll keep doing it.

[mike_b]

@mike b, I have done a couple bar shows, and I will keep doing them because they are fun. I am totally with you on that. I do not feel the same about open mics that are full of other open mic-ers that have already heard my one good joke several times.

You misunderstand me, my good man. I'm saying you get some other comedians you like, find a space, produce a show, promote the living shit out of it any way you can, and then go up on stage and shine on 'em.

If there's one thing I've learned from the podcast I've been doing, it's this: You'd be amazed what people are willing to do if you ask.

[Vercetti]

And my problem isn't that I am bombing all the time, like boosler, my problem is that I don't see a lot of value in going up and saying the same thing, to the same guys, a couple nights a week.

But the thing is that's an essential part of the process. If you're a year in and not enjoying the work then...well, maybe it's NOT for you.

There's no shame in stopping to ask yourself the hard questions. "Why am I doing this? Why am I bothering?" I've certainly been there with creative endeavors. Lots of people have. That's also part of the process.

Me personally, I love every aspect of comedy. Going up, working the mics, hanging with comics, developing material. I can't imagine NOT doing it. Going up and making people laugh? When you really think about it, it's truly amazing that a job and life like this even exists. I see value in every part of the comedy process, including working the same material to get it down.

I can't even imagine walking away from comedy. I truly feel that I belong here. If you feel the same way then you gotta do the work. Yeah, rejection sucks, but there's not a single person out there that hasn't had to deal with it at some point. If you're having doubts about the whole thing, it's okay to take a step back and figure things out. Maybe writing some new stuff or trying a different room will do the trick.

[drieux]

Disappointment lurks around every corner. While I'm very small potatoes, I lucked my way into a call-in interview on a nationally syndicated radio show this morning. I've done radio before and have even hosted my own radio shows; how could I go wrong?

Nope - came off like an idiot, sounded moronic and the host ended up cutting me off and dumping my call. My hopes for some quick plugs and a good interview got nixed because I couldn't understand what was going on due to some loud, distracting music.

Do it because you enjoy it and learn to laugh off the crappy stuff, and aspire to create good things by your own standards.

[scamboogah]

Fuck ManCow. He should only get cancer.

[JManderville]

..

[soce]

I like doing it, but I feel like I am as good as other open mic-ers that are getting more stage time with about as much experience as I have.

You can't compare yourself to others. I mean well yes of course you CAN if you'd like to, but you SHOULDN'T, because then you'll fall into the whole "It worked for them.. When's it gonna be my turn??" problem.

It's not a race of you vs them. They have a completely different set of tools. Perhaps they hustle harder or have more friends in higher places. Maybe they are of a choice demographic. Maybe their jokes fit better. There will be a hundred reasons why their career is different from yours.

If you want to keep doing it, you've got to write like crazy and push it to the max, but only in directions where you are loving every second of it. In addition to open mics, you can always run your own show, write online, make videos, do podcasts, try improv and sketch... just get out there and have fun.

Do what you enjoy, and enjoy what you do! If it happens to make you successful or rich, then more power to you, but don't necessarily go with the expectation that that will ever happen.

[nixonjames]

I don't know where you're getting up and performing but making a good impression on other comics (both open micers and more established) and with club owners/bookers is huge.

I'm a year in and I've done a handful of offnight club shows (thurs or sun) and have had decent responses from them. It helps if you have some friends that will come out and buy drinks (not a 'bringer' per se) but multiple club owners have mentioned in passing it never hurts to build a loyal following that likes spending $20/head when they come out.

I've also found the most luck with just networking with other comics. Keep an ear to the ground and see where and who is going up at other shows. Make a point of talking to some of these guys at the open mics you're going to and if you're funny then chances are you'll get invited or asked to do some shows.

That said I've also heard numerous rumors that some folks just badgered a booker/owner AFTER they like them until they give them time. I would be very careful with this one tho b/c I feel like it's just as easy to turn into a whiny punk that doesn't get time as a rule.

As far as I'm concerned my only goal for comedy is to book a paid show at a club on a weekend by my 5 year mark. I have yet to tease out my voice yet and I'm just starting to get a handle on joke writing so any sooner than that and I wouldn't bother worrying about it.

[nixonjames]

I feel like a lot of comics put a lot of stock in how they do at an open mic. How good of reactions they get and how a joke works.

This is something I really struggled with for the first 6 months. And if I do a handful of good mics/shows now then bomb like crazy at a mic I get down now. I have found that focusing on how well I execute my delivery and material will determine how I feel about it.

At the end of the day it's an odds game I feel like. You may have a joke that hits 8 out of 10 times. But you still gotta accept that you might hit that 2 out of 10 on all of your jokes the same night.

I just try to make sure that what I do is done as well as I can and let the audience love/hate/indifferent it. At the end of the day I'm developing my sense of what is funny to what types of people and figure the best angle for each style of audience.

Also on that 'i bombed for X years' thing.
A guy here in Boston went to HS with Eugene Mirman and started going to comedy shows to support him and when I first met him was quick to mention how much Mirman sucked for years and years, and then something clicked and he blew up.

So... diamonds take time.