In your learned opinions, what makes a comedy song good? Who are the best comedy song performers?
In your learned opinions, what makes a comedy song good? Who are the best comedy song performers?
I have a face that was made for radio and a voice that was made for print and when it comes to using computers I am eTarded.
No One Should Ever Have To Listen To This
I feel like the music has to have a lower profile than the comedy but not too low. If there was a spectrum of comedy songs where one end is almost pure spoken word comedy with barely noticeable musical accompaniment (Mitch with the standup bass player) and on the other end is almost pure music (The D), my tastes and creative tendencies lean at about 75% towards the Tenacious D side. Don't get me wrong. Both are very funny in their own way.
Vamping over a standup routine can be funny but it pretty much depends on the comedian and not the music. The 'music' is secondary to the point that it might as well not even be present. But then if there's more music than comedy it's not funny. I guess it's a delicate balance, if you would.
The D makes hilarious music that you can also rock out to but the music doesn't take away from the comedy. I've recently discovered Garfunkel and Oates and I almost got fired for laughing so hard at work at Pregnant Women Are Smug. I thought their's was the perfect mix of funniness and musicality for comedy songs.
Parodies. Ahh, song parodies. I so much enjoyed Weird Al back in the day. Can't say I've enjoyed the countless imitators I've seen in clubs over the years. It seems like 90% of the musical comedy that comes out these days is a parody of a rap song that I'm [apparently] not cool enough to have heard yet. I know why comics do so many parodies. I understand the benefits and I'm sure Mr. Greyy could give a very detailed description of the pros and cons. I just feel that if the music is written and the rhyme scheme is written, then as a comedian most of your work is done. We have to put some kind of creative energy into a song or else we're just playing covers.
Guitar acts are somewhat castigated in the world of standup, but unfortunately not without reason. I've seen so many so-called comedians get onstage an use a guitar as a crutch to hide the fact that they can't sing, can't play, and can't be funny without the almost guaranteed laughs one gets when parodying a popular song. A lot of times, even if they do write their own songs, they're almost always about intercourse (not the town in PA) or drugs (getting fucked or getting fucked up).
Well, that's my opinion on comedy songs. Feel free to flame me if I said something that you don't agree with. Don't take me too seriously, though. I make less than 1/3 the minimum wage in the richest economy the world has ever seen, so obviously I'm not too bright.
I love comedy.
I love music.
I love them together.
Me, The JerBear
I have a face that was made for radio and a voice that was made for print and when it comes to using computers I am eTarded.
No One Should Ever Have To Listen To This
Harris Wittels did a great set in Solvang over the weekend where he told one liner jokes while playing the drums.
BRAZIL!!
Bob LaRitchie, Brian's Friend
[youtube]LENKIbKCZ_U[/youtube]
By and large, Pi by Hard and Phirm always gets the most of my listeners calling in asking what that song was and saying they loved it.
I tend to roll with your logic, JerBear. I actually am in a comedy/music act, and we set out from the inception trying to make the music good. To us, nothing is more sad or cop-outtish than to play the "I don't play my instrument or sing well, isn't that funny" card. We are trying to make our "stand up" material more prevalent these days, and we're using Steven Martin and his banjo as a guide post for that in a way. But at the end of the day, our recorded (studio type stuff) material has production value and stuff that I think is really key to what we're trying "to do." Does that make sense?
I'll put it this way: we've given our demos to people and they seem to have one major insight, we need to bring the vocals out front because in the end, it's all about the "jokes" I guess, so if people can't hear the jokes, but they can hear your guitar solo really well, what's the point?
*shrug* Sorry if I was too long-winded on this.
What kind of songs do you do, James? I'm trying to expand my comedic musical horizons so send a link. . .
I have a face that was made for radio and a voice that was made for print and when it comes to using computers I am eTarded.
No One Should Ever Have To Listen To This
PM me an email address or something and I'll get you a link. I was such an ass-clown on here before that I'm trying to keep that terrible in taste out of everyone's mouths.We really run the gammut though. We have a 70s Disco Type song, stuff that sounds like Rage Against the Machine-y stuff, country, rockabilly, punk...prog rock, etc.
I think there is a fine line between musical comedy and a funny song. A lot of "The D" just seems like funny songs to me rather than comedy.
I prefer musical comedy, ie. 75% in the direction away from music with a focus on comedy.
Hey I tried sending you a pm but the computer decided to take a union five on me.
For those who might be interested (by my count-both of you), I recently uploaded a demo of a 'song' I've been working on that basically slams shitty managers and bosses that I've had in the past onto my soundclick page. Yes, this would be what I would call 'restaurant humor' but it kinda applies everywhere. We've all had a boss or two that thought they were 'The New Sheriff'. Here's what I think of that kind of person.
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8252029
I have a face that was made for radio and a voice that was made for print and when it comes to using computers I am eTarded.
No One Should Ever Have To Listen To This
I'm going to give that a spin in a minute here...here's a link to a song of ours...it's called "love cauldron" and it's about fucking in the jacuzzi. Rough mix though...Originally Posted by Me, The JerBear
http://bestnetworx.com/uploader/file...Cauldron_1.mp3
I was totally feeling the 70s vibe but I really couldn't make out a lot of the words, unfortunately. What else ya got?
I have a face that was made for radio and a voice that was made for print and when it comes to using computers I am eTarded.
No One Should Ever Have To Listen To This
OH DAMN! Thanks for reminding me...that's an older mix of that tune...shite. We were told that the vocals needed to come out further in front for most of our tunes, and that mp3 I linked you to was the wrong damn version of that song. I need to re-encode a new mix of that tune. I'll do that tomorrow. For now, tell me what you think of this. It might be from the same round of mixes, so apologies if the vocals aren't out front enough on these too...
The Status Quo (Rage Against the Machine-y)
The Malodorous Waltz (A Straight-Ahead Rock Waltz about vagina farts...we're really evolved.)
Dudeman I tried. The sound is so garbled I couldn't make out much. I'm not a sound engineer either or else I would offer some tips. The music was identifiable enough that I can tell it sounded like someone sounding like Rage or disco-esque, but the words were pretty much lost. What I could discern sounded like punchlines, but if the setups were inaudible, well you know the rest.
Please don't get me wrong-I'm not knocking you for your efforts. I want to hear every comedy song ever made. Get me a good sound file. Those all sounded live but I don't think they were.
Peace and Love,
Me, The JerBear
ps Did you listen to The New Sheriff?
pps Just listened to Staus Quo with some good cans and could make out more of it. You have definitely got the sounding like the band you are emulating thing down pat. Have you ever heard of a band called Ween? They are masters of changing their sound/genre with every song. The fact that you and your band can apparently do a similar thing shows no small measure of talent, methinks. Who writes your words though? Don't take this wrong, but was Status Quo supposed to be a comedy song (as in were the words supposed to be funny or was the fact that you guys did sound a LOT like Rage supposed to be the funny thing?)
I play a pretty mean cover of Paula Abdul's 'Straight Up' and it always gets laughs once people realize what I'm doing, but it's not a comedy song per se.
Last edited by Me, The JerBear; October 26, 2009 at 9:17 PM.
I have a face that was made for radio and a voice that was made for print and when it comes to using computers I am eTarded.
No One Should Ever Have To Listen To This
EDIT: Starting with saying that I did listen to the New Sherrif. I dug it a lot man. How long have you been playing?
No offense taken whatsoever man! I'm no engineer/producer myself, so I'm pretty much learning as I go, and I totally appreciate the feedback, because it gives me something to shoot for in new mixes (I actually remixed 5 tunes this past weekend, and I'll encode and upload them later this week to see if you can make the words out more clearly).
Heard of Ween? Ha ha, that's awesome that you compare us to them because they're a HUGE influence on us. Our live act is much, much different because in actuality there's only two of us. I play every instrument, and my partner sings with me. We both write lyrics.
The Status Quo is kind of a parody of RATM mixed with a commentary on Conservatives mixed with a semi-indictment of the baby-boomer generation. It's mostly written from the POV of a conservative, which we thought was an awesome match for Rage since they're so liberally bent.
The first verse:
Get out of bed and fall in line like a lemming
Don't understand where all this discontent is stemming from
Just do your part and pay into the system
Where do you think all these clean streets and bridges come from?
Make no waves and do what they told ya
Put on a suit and become a corporate soldier
Better get yourself a good retirement plan
Invest your money, buy American
So that's all supposed to be a Young Republican type responding to the Liberal movement (i should mention my partner and I are pretty left-leaning individuals).
The chorus:
Just sit right back and do as your told
It's getting too late and you're getting too old
to be rebellious, thoughtful or bold
So sit right back and be the status quo
It's all again just a conservative telling a Liberal to stop being so "out of the box" and just settle down.
So yeah, we figured the comedy came from it being a Rage song written to the message of a neoCon. We do however have some songs that we think a lot of the comedy comes from our take on a genre, like 70's prog-rock for instance. Then there's the song about Queefing that is 90% set up and punchline stuff.
Live, we do a 25 minute set, with about four songs and about 15 minutes of traditional "standup" type material. I play an acoustic guitar, so yeah...that's that. Jesus, sorry this is so long, just thought I'd give you a rundown of that song in particular, and what we go for live.
(We also just started shooting a series of webisodes for a sex toy manufacturing/distribution company...lol)
This isn't written towards anyone in particular:
Writing good comedy songs that satisfy both the discerning music and comedic pallet is VERY difficult because you're juggling two very different practices. Music is an emotional and meaningful thing, while most comics don't go up and talk about their feelings.
Helpful tips that you can feel free to ignore because who the fuck am I.
Be very careful about the way you structure your songs. Most people insist on putting repeated choruses in music, and the very idea of a chorus just seems at odds with the idea of comedy.
If you put a joke in a chorus, then you're repeating a joke several times in the song. Unless this repetition is the joke, it wont really be funny after the first time. If you don't put a joke in the chorus...well...you have a lot of dead time where people aren't really laughing. No one in a crowd is going to care that your comedy song didn't have a great hook in the chorus - try to be funny and don't inorganically insert an unnecessary musical tradition just because you think you have to.
Basically, conventional verse/chorus/verse/chorus pop song structure wasn't built for jokes. Don't try to force it.
This is from personal experience, but music writing is different for everyone. WRITE YOUR LYRICS BEFORE YOU WRITE YOUR MUSIC. If you build a song off of good lyrics, the song will flow so much more organically than if you do it the other way around.
The timing and syllable flow of comedy can also be very particular and it's much easier to adjust a song and maintain musicality than it is to adjust language and be just as funny.
Bridge, I agree with everything you just wrote. Your analysis belies a certain amount of experience in the area. What tunes do you have? Don't be shy-I can tell you've spent some time writing a comedy song or two.
I showed you mine . . .
I have a face that was made for radio and a voice that was made for print and when it comes to using computers I am eTarded.
No One Should Ever Have To Listen To This
I don't know that I agree with this at all actually. I think the best comics are the ones that do talk about their feelings. Whether or not they cloak them in "comedic" fluff or material doesn't change the fact that the truly monolithic comedians definitely would talk about their feelings. Comedy is an expression of feelings, much like any art form. It's just that comedy is usually meant to elicit laughs, where as depending on the musical genre, music can be meant to elicit any number of emotional reactions.
I think it's all very dependent on what the comedian/songwriter is "going for." For instance, there are plenty of Tenacious D songs with repeated choruses in them. For myself as a songwriter, I don't want to sacrifice anything from a musical standpoint for the sake of comedy, and vice-versa. But that's a personal choice of mine, and my partner's. For my tastes, I think it comes off as "hack with guitar" when there's not a chorus. Do the song justice.Be very careful about the way you structure your songs. Most people insist on putting repeated choruses in music, and the very idea of a chorus just seems at odds with the idea of comedy.
Again, see above. To me the bottom line is that the material will speak for itself. You could take your argument and apply it to choruses in general, couldn't you? I mean, the law of diminishing returns is really what you're driving at. So essentially you could tell John and Paul that repeating "She Loves You. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah" a dozen times in a 2.5 minute long song will make the phrase lose its impact. And maybe you're right...but then again, what would stick in your brain long after the song stopped playing? That's why they call it a "hook" yeah?If you put a joke in a chorus, then you're repeating a joke several times in the song. Unless this repetition is the joke, it wont really be funny after the first time. If you don't put a joke in the chorus...well...you have a lot of dead time where people aren't really laughing. No one in a crowd is going to care that your comedy song didn't have a great hook in the chorus - try to be funny and don't inorganically insert an unnecessary musical tradition just because you think you have to.
I agree that you shouldn't force it, but definitely someone shouldn't shy away from it either.Basically, conventional verse/chorus/verse/chorus pop song structure wasn't built for jokes. Don't try to force it.
See, my partner and I work the completely opposite way usually. Since I'm the one who writes the music, sometimes he'll come to me with a melody and I'll figure out the chords/keys around it, but a lot of times we say "Let's write a punk song." And I write a punk tune, and then we figure out what we want to "say" in it.This is from personal experience, but music writing is different for everyone. WRITE YOUR LYRICS BEFORE YOU WRITE YOUR MUSIC. If you build a song off of good lyrics, the song will flow so much more organically than if you do it the other way around.
To me that's another case of "what works best for whoever is writing the song" being the best way to go about it.
See above.The timing and syllable flow of comedy can also be very particular and it's much easier to adjust a song and maintain musicality than it is to adjust language and be just as funny.
Don't think I'm knocking your opinions or anything, I just personally find we work a totally different way. And the biggest complaint we get about our material (recorded that is, our live show is so different from the recorded material right now that it's pretty much apples/oranges), is just in the mixing so you can hear the lyrics. LOL. That is DEFINITELY something needs to be fixed though, for sure.
Just to be clear, I'm not arguing with you or anything. Just two people who have written music (I'm sure you have more credentials than I do, though) talking about how they do it. Internet discussions always turn into heated arguments, and I don't intend this to.
Although their certainly are comics who go on stage and talk about their feelings, I think music is a much baser art form (and I don't mean that judgmentally at all). I think music is more about emotion and stand up is more about thought. That's why Joe Buttfuck comedian can't just get up on stage and yell and be successful, while there are plenty of metal bands who just rawr rawr rawr and get somewhere.
We somehow both agree and disagree. There's nothing inherent in music that lends itself to a verse/chorus/verse/chorus structure. To me it's "hack with guitar" if someone thinks of a chorus progression, verse riff, and a bridge, slap it together and somehow it's a song. Strict structure like that just feels lazy and predictable to me. Of course, a lot of bands do it well, but there's no reason for it to have to be like that. I'm much more of a fan of a the "leitmotif" idea.For myself as a songwriter, I don't want to sacrifice anything from a musical standpoint for the sake of comedy, and vice-versa. But that's a personal choice of mine, and my partner's. For my tastes, I think it comes off as "hack with guitar" when there's not a chorus. Do the song justice.
A great example of a comedy song done well is Business Time by Flight Of The Conchords. It has a simple structure, but they switch up the the chorus enough that the joke stays fresh and funny throughout the song.
To me, not sacrificing anything means that I don't need to put in a chorus at the end of the bridge if it lends itself to something different, you know? Popular song structure tends to be cyclical and repetitious in nature, while I think most jokes tend not to be.
I could and I do. The thing about comedy that amplifies it is the aspect of the joke, though. A joke is about surprise, and you lose the element of surprise once you tell it. Sure, jokes can be funny more than once, but wouldn't it be obnoxious if a comedian went up and told the same joke three times throughout his act (unless the repetition is the joke). What makes it okay for a musical act to do it?Again, see above. To me the bottom line is that the material will speak for itself. You could take your argument and apply it to choruses in general, couldn't you?
I've had this discussion (lyrics or music first) with a lot of musicians and I know that I'm in the minority. I see it as this: good messages are concrete (even if the message is a moral question, it's still clear what the question is) while music is malleable. It's easier to get something malleable to conform to something concrete than the other way around. A message you have to twist to conform to music is going to be weaker than music twisted to fit a message. That's more overall music writing theory than comedy specific, though. I don't have much experience writing comedy songs, but I've been writing music for a while.See, my partner and I work the completely opposite way usually. Since I'm the one who writes the music, sometimes he'll come to me with a melody and I'll figure out the chords/keys around it, but a lot of times we say "Let's write a punk song." And I write a punk tune, and then we figure out what we want to "say" in it.
And as always, sorry for the essay.
Oh, yeah definitely don't want this to get internet-stupid-fight-style! I actually really just like discussing these kinds of things with other artists/comedians, so please don't read any of my jank with anything but mutual respect for your craft, friend.
That's an interesting comparison. And to a degree I would absolutely agree with you. It's much easier for a more "raw" musical act to get picked up on vaunted into fame/fortune/acclaim than it would be for a simplistic or raw comedian to be picked up. I mean, Sam Kinnison is someone who on the outside would be very comparable to a Screamy Metal Band in ways, at least in terms of tone, etc. But there was definitely a real emotional genesis for Sam's stuff...and I would actually guess that even the RAWR RAWR (great term for them, btw) guys have some kind of impetus behind their art, at least the "good" ones would...Although their certainly are comics who go on stage and talk about their feelings, I think music is a much baser art form (and I don't mean that judgmentally at all). I think music is more about emotion and stand up is more about thought. That's why Joe Buttfuck comedian can't just get up on stage and yell and be successful, while there are plenty of metal bands who just rawr rawr rawr and get somewhere
To me that's the rub actually. Any "good" art I think comes from reality, from real emotion, good or bad. And the "posers" are the ones who just make shit up, or don't really emotionally invest in their art, at least on some level. You don't have to go all mental about it, but the material should resonate at least with your own psyche if you expect it to ring true for an audience.
I'd say we're in agreement there for sure. I guess my point was that it seemed that you were dismissing v/c/v as a format that is viable for comedy-related music. And it appears that you just don't always jive with it in your "straight" musical tastes so that would explain a lot.We somehow both agree and disagree. There's nothing inherent in music that lends itself to a verse/chorus/verse/chorus structure. To me it's "hack with guitar" if someone thinks of a chorus progression, verse riff, and a bridge, slap it together and somehow it's a song. Strict structure like that just feels lazy and predictable to me. Of course, a lot of bands do it well, but there's no reason for it to have to be like that. I'm much more of a fan of a the "leitmotif" idea.
I myself am a pop music whore. I love it all. V/C/V stuff, eclectically written singer-song writer stuff, crazy weird analog noisey stuff...I just love to hear it all! I've found myself oddly stealing from completely incongruous genres numerous times thanks to someone popping in a CD and saying "Check this shit out!"
So I take that philosophy into the songs I write for comedy too...I write what feels right...and most of the time I think I can pull it off...but as with anything, it all depends on the listener, and if I was successful in conveying what I wanted to convey.
Absolutely. Love FOTC. Though I also hate them because they're so goddamned good and well-known and I'm not!A great example of a comedy song done well is Business Time by Flight Of The Conchords. It has a simple structure, but they switch up the the chorus enough that the joke stays fresh and funny throughout the song.
And again I think we're pretty much on the same page. I definitely don't think anyone should try to force a song-structure element on a song that doesn't need it. But I feel the same way about straight music as well, yeah? I mean, the quickest way to make a song sound convoluted is to squeeze shit into the box that doesn't belong...then again, you could wax philosophical and say that the delicate balance between what you think belongs and what actually belongs is probably the very definition of art.To me, not sacrificing anything means that I don't need to put in a chorus at the end of the bridge if it lends itself to something different, you know? Popular song structure tends to be cyclical and repetitious in nature, while I think most jokes tend not to be.
You've heard of the "Rules of Three" right? And we all know what a "call back" is...it's a goddamned cliche now. But it's sort of the same idea I think in comedy music. A chorus in a comedy song could easily be explained as a "call back" of sorts. And don't get me wrong, when my partner and I write there are plenty of songs we write that have the choruses subtly changed to keep it from getting repetitive. I just think there's nothing mutually exclusive about comedy music and choruses, nor is there anything mutually inclusive. Not to sound like a broken record, but really is so very "ear of the beholder."I could and I do. The thing about comedy that amplifies it is the aspect of the joke, though. A joke is about surprise, and you lose the element of surprise once you tell it. Sure, jokes can be funny more than once, but wouldn't it be obnoxious if a comedian went up and told the same joke three times throughout his act (unless the repetition is the joke). What makes it okay for a musical act to do it?
Nah, I think there's a billion ways to write songs actually. Hell, Elton John sucked so bad at lyric writing that he had to find someone to write them for him. And he and Taupin I think have never actually both sat down at the same piano to compose a song. If I'm not mistaken, a lot of times they use "your" method of taking Bernie's words first and then adding music. So clearly, there's no right or wrong there.I've had this discussion (lyrics or music first) with a lot of musicians and I know that I'm in the minority.
Ah, see I must differ on this point I think. I definitely feel that words and lyrics can be just as malleable as the musical content. If your vocabulary is big enough you can probably find 8 bajillion ways to say something. Me, I just prefer "fuck, shit and dick."I see it as this: good messages are concrete (even if the message is a moral question, it's still clear what the question is) while music is malleable. It's easier to get something malleable to conform to something concrete than the other way around. A message you have to twist to conform to music is going to be weaker than music twisted to fit a message.
I started doing sketch comedy about four years after I picked up my first musical instrument, so I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. So it's cool that we have similar experience, but different takes on the process of writing comedy songs. This is what I enjoy about message boards, really. It's the ability to trade ideas...and like I said, I definitely don't want to chum the waters or anything; I dig your POV on this.That's more overall music writing theory than comedy specific, though. I don't have much experience writing comedy songs, but I've been writing music for a while.
Ditto.And as always, sorry for the essay.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
