Getting "spoiled" by alternative rooms

[Comog]

I've been doing comedy a little over a year, and during that time I've done some different kinds of rooms. There's a comedy club here that I started out doing, and pretty soon after that I found out about a more alternative-type room that does shows weekly, and another room like that that has monthly shows. I think the jokes I do are more suited for that kind of room, but I've been wanting to ask some professional comedians who have maybe been doing it longer: Can you get spoiled by alternative rooms?

By this I mean that alternative rooms are more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt, let you be a little darker or weirder or whatever, etc. And they laugh at a lot of jokes that a comedy club crowd might not laugh at.

Does anyone think a comedian doing these types of rooms more often runs the risk of getting better at these kinds of rooms, but getting no better at dealing with "real" crowds, and not really learning to perform your material so strongly that any crowd can get on board with it?

[KevinLee]

JUST HAVE FUN!!!

[Wittels]

I would say it is definitely important to play as many different rooms as possible. But ultimately people are people and funny is funny. In a "clubbier" room you might just have to reference U2 instead of Neutral Milk Hotel. Just do all types of rooms and find out what's working for you where.

[Comog]

I thought I would also add that the reason I bring this up is because I have some jokes that I consider to be "proven," that is, when I've been doing them over and over in alternative rooms they seem to always work, as long as I'm not bombing. But I will have a set in a comedy club that's going perfectly well, and I'll tell a joke that I consider proven, and literally no one will laugh at it.
It's weird to me that I can be doing a set at a comedy club where I'm doing great, and one of these jokes will just fall completely flat. I don't feel like nixing these jokes, because I usually really like them, but I also don't think it'd be good to have a separate "alternative" act, and a separate "comedy club" act.

[Alex Mac]

I don't quite think that it is the type of setting that you are at but the audience. Granted, certain venues will attract a certain crowd but I think it simply falls down to your own comfort level and your ability to size up your audience. By that, I mean that if working at a certain venue type and for a certain crowd informs your own style of comedy, you should not tailor or change that from location to location.

As was said, at most you should consider your audience and what they will understand, specifically when talking about cultural phenomena. Those are the things, like Wittels said, you might want to consider editing for each show. But I wouldn't extend that any further. Once you find what makes you laugh and how your thought process works, embrace it.

[Rob Delaney]

I like to watch Todd Glass, Brody Stevens, & Tig Notaro because they're amazing "room readers" who are 100% themselves wherever they are, but they also clearly understand that not every room needs the same show. Any great comic does this, but they're excellent examples that leap to mind. If you're not in LA where they live, they've got plenty of clips online. I'm about to do my 2nd show of the night at the same club right now this second and I know I'll have to make adjustments from the first show. But since I don't really know anything about anything, I refer you to the work of the veteran comics above, whom I love.

[pg13]

I think a lot of this comes down to...why are you doing comedy and what are you trying to get out of it?

If you want to be the type of comedian who can work any room, any crowd, anywhere...then, certainly, you can get spoiled by ANY situation you do exclusively.

But, if you just want to do the comedy you like to do...and you've found a situation that allows you to do that...what are you complaining about?

There's no one answer for everyone...although, trust me, there will be traditional comics who will always point at alt-comics and say that they couldn't handle working a typical road room gig...and there will be alt-comics who will always point at traditional-style comics and say that their dick jokes wouldn't fly in an alt-room.

That said, and I realize I may be betraying my own personal biases in saying this, I DO think that it can be a problem for a comedian who starts out doing only alt-rooms...and I think it's harder for such a comedian to learn how to make what they do work in more traditional settings than it would be for a traditional comedian to appreciate the greater freedom to apply their cultivated skills in an alt-room.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

pg--Most of the founders of the American alt-comedy scene were frustrated traditional comics who wanted the opportunity to do more and to avoid the traps and expectations of the traditional scene. I worry that those who START in alt-comedy rooms are merely feeding the NEW expectations of the alt-scene. Will we need an alternative to alt-comedy eventually? Or is that what Blue Collar Comedy is?--seattle

[Cameron]

pg--Most of the founders of the American alt-comedy scene were frustrated traditional comics who wanted the opportunity to do more and to avoid the traps and expectations of the traditional scene. I worry that those who START in alt-comedy rooms are merely feeding the NEW expectations of the alt-scene. Will we need an alternative to alt-comedy eventually? Or is that what Blue Collar Comedy is?--seattle

I don't think we'll ever need "an alternative to alt-comedy" because that already exists in the traditional rooms. I think both alt-comedy and traditional comedy are both kind of alternatives to each other.

And maybe it's not that way in Seattle, but in the part of the country where I am the Blue-collar type stuff is commonplace in the traditional rooms. In fact, I'd say probably a quarter of the road comics that come through are doing some variation of the redneck/Blue Collar type stuff.

[pg13]

The comment about Blue Collar Comedy was a throwaway joke meant to allow me to exit the stage with a laugh... (And, truth is, we don't really get that much Blue Collar-style comedy in the clubs up here...and if it wasn't so damn expensive to live here, I'd gladly invite you all to move here if for that only.)

My other point was a bit more serious. I do worry, sometimes, about the alt-comedy scene cannibalizing itself into extinction.

Think of it this way...one of the most obvious defining elements of alt-comedy is that it is unconventional...but there are now conventions (as in customs/expectations, not as in gatherings) for alt-comedy.

There are enough conventions that you can parody alt-comedy (elements could include: shabby thrift store outfit, tousled hair, pulls out a sheet of paper to read a list, uses unicorn/robot/pirate punchlines, uses an emotion in place of a thing for a punchline, uses nerdy or obscure pop culture references knowingly, shows no urgency or effort in trying to connect with an audience, often draws attention to their own failures as a performer while maintaining an overconfident self-image, etc. etc.)

The question becomes--is alt-comedy defined by it being unconventional...or is alt-comedy defined by the conventions it embraces? (Or is alt-comedy merely defined in opposition of the traditional?)

Of course, what I TRULY believe is that this question should be absolutely moot in the minds of the performers. Do what you want to do the way you want to do it...and let somebody else who feels the need to do so define you and what you do.

pg--Or, in other words, when it comes to pursuing comedy in the way you feel compelled to...you should just...uhhhh...git-r-done...--seattle

[souporman]

if i were you i'd do more altcomedy and less traditional rooms. 'traditional' comedy is dead amongst the younger generations...

[Cameron]

if i were you i'd do more altcomedy and less traditional rooms. 'traditional' comedy is dead amongst the younger generations...

Yeah that's not true at all.

I'm at my local club every week and probably 50% of the audiences are under 30.

[Alex Mac]

It depends on the room. Some of Boston's more (and dare I say some of the best) "alternative" rooms are actually clubs for example. Places like the Studio or especially Mottley's. Some clubs are reaching out to the alternative crowds more than others.

[MattRuby]

Alt-comedy often seems to be a euphemism for comedy by/for rich white people who went to college. If you want to reach a broader audience than that, I'd say it's a good idea to try other venues besides alt rooms. If you're fine with limiting your audience that way, stick with alt rooms. Yes, this is a huge stereotype I'm making. But it's also kinda true.

CK's take on it here:
http://www.sandpapersuit.com/2009/02...entary-on.html

"It doesn't matter where or who the audiences are. When I meet young comedians who say, 'I don't want to work the road.' Or 'I don't want to work that club because the audiences are stupid.' You're fucking stupid. Just get onstage. Go onstage in adverse conditions, that's how you get good.

Do you really think that becoming a great comedian means finding audiences that are already ready to laugh at what you have to say? That are really nice polite audiences? Do you really think that Carlin and Pryor and Bill Cosby started out in clubs full of cool people that were ready to laugh? No. So you gotta come up through a hard road. And that's fun, if you approach it right."

[Babs]

I think this is an appropriate thread to ask... do you guys think any kind of alt-comedy thing would work in the setting of the bigger clubs? Is the two-drink min. and sometimes douchey clientele just too off-putting for alt comedy fans? I'm wondering if alt show would work at one of the bigger clubs...if the audience for small basement shows could ever somewhat be transferred to that setting. I personally find that to be a part of the charm of not attending shows at big clubs, but if say the Improv had an alternative comedy night where you saw talented people you might normally see at UCB or Steve Allen, would people go?

Thanks for any input here...I'm really interested to see what people think about this.

[punkdc]

I would, but the problem I have with bigger clubs is the ticket price. I'm the typical poor college students so I don't have the $20 + 2 item to go to shows. And when I visit my parents in Cali, I'll spend a night at the UCB because it costs the same but for much more show.

[scamboogah]

I think punkdc has hit the nail on the head. I think part of the very definition of 'alt comedy' is that it's inexpensive, so trying to put it on at a mainstream club sort of makes it not alt-comedy anymore.

Seems like this would be a lose-lose. People paying $40 (once you figure in drinks and such) aren't going to want to see someone experimenting, and comics knowing that they're performing in front of a crowd that's paid that much are less likely to screw around with something they're not sure of.

Only place this could possibly work would be Comedy Death Ray, which could probably get away with $30 a ticket if they wanted.

[punkdc]

Another place that could get away with it is Largo. My next visit to LA Aziz is doing a show there, and though I'd much rather see him at UCB, but I feel that Largo will have the same kinda vibe. They also have Benson Interruption which I'm guessing was successful at Largo.

[Babs]

Right, I should have mentioned that I would only ever consider it being a possibility IF the tickets weren't ridiculous. Maybe 5 bucks, but then there's that nasty drink minimum.

[punkdc]

If I saw $10 + two drink, if there was one or two good names I'd totally be down.

[Bucky_Sinister]

Can you get spoiled by alternative rooms?

You should be so lucky.

You can also be just as spoiled by the standard clubs. I've seen some guys who put together 7 minutes for showcase night...and never write another 7.

Find your weak part and improve that. If you're better one place than the other, figure out why and remove the weak links.