Do retired jokes go to Florida (or do they take their RV on the road?)

[pg13]

There's a thread lauding the wonderful comedy eps recently released on AST over in the News subforum. Thanks, perhaps, to sales via iTunes...a particular bit featured on the Dan Telfer ep has gone viral on YouTube--so much, that Dan may be considering retiring the bit.

It's a fair assessment of the situation. Comedy depends on surprise. If a significant number of people have seen or heard the bit in question, that surprise is lost.

On the other hand...comedy is also about recognition. If you became a fan of a performer thanks to a comedy album or a comedy special...and you went to see that performer, you're likely hoping to see them perform the bits that you're familiar with...after all, that's why you like them. And fans have no problem with constantly repeating their favorite bits of their favorite performers.

I had the opportunity to work with Jim Gaffigan early in my comedy pursuits. He was very excited about a new chunk of material that he'd been working on...it was the material he really WANTED to perform. However, he admitted some concern...and was leaning towards NOT doing that material, because he felt that people coming to his shows wanted to hear classic bits like "Manatees"--the stuff they'd heard from him on the comedy radio shows he was featured on locally, the stuff from his CCP--and that they'd go home disappointed if he didn't do that stuff.

I don't know if my response had any impact on him--as he was likely just voicing an internal struggle--but I assured him that the people in the audience wanted to see HIM perform...that they'd find whatever he did for them to be brilliant and worthwhile...that they'd be thrilled if they heard material they knew OR to hear brand new stuff they'd never heard before...

(This being a few years ago, the "new" material in question, by the way, was "Hot Pockets" and "Cake"--it's hard to imagine that he was uncertain about whether or not he should do those bits...!!!)

On the other hand (and as documented on the "Believe" DVD)...over in the UK, Eddie Izzard actually had to defend himself against fraud allegations when he audiences going to see him perform early on during his "Circle" tour were given a performance featuring material from his "Dressed To Kill" DVD (as was Eddie's process, he'd begin a new tour by mixing new material into his previous act, so by the middle of the tour, he'd have an entire new set of tested workable material.) NOTE: Eddie never toured "Dressed To Kill" in the UK...but people in the UK had the DVD...

...and then there was the Sarah Silverman in the UK story, where fans were upset that most of her 45 minute show was material that was found on "Jesus Is Magic".

ON THE OTHER HAND (how many hands are there?)--there's the rather frightening thing that was happening to Brian Regan a few years ago...where he'd come back for an encore, ask the audience for requests...he'd start the bit and then, like U2 fans singing "40", the audience would all recite the bit, word for word... The fans, celebrating their communal knowledge (I saw Brian last year, and he had specific encore material...so this weird concert comedaoke wouldn't happen again.)

I've seen performers build new bits on the backs of older popular bits--and using the sly reference to the previous bit as a recognition laugh for aware fans.

---

There's an irony to the basic truth that the very things that best promote your comedy the best--putting an album out, getting radio play, getting on tv, doing a special--will "burn" the very material that you've used to get those opportunities.

When you do a special or an album, you're pretty much locking that material in amber. You can ride the promotional value of those things for awhile...but with in due time, you're going to have to craft something entirely new and leave what has been documented behind.

That's a very good motivation to ALWAYS be writing...because you can't just ride one group of material forever, unless you manage to avoid any success (or even any camera phones...you know this viral video stuff has no respect for your plans and schemes...)

So...raise a toast to Dan Telfer. Popular enough now to lose ownership of something wonderful.

Break's over...back on your head!

pg--Sadly, I've never experienced having a bit become popular enough to retire. All of my bits are still working 20 hours a day, making athletic shoes.--seattle

[funkyrhino]

I don't know....
if you're Tommy Tutone you can't leave a performance without doing Jenny 867-5309 (I think that was her phone number) because honestly we don't know anything else. But if you're an artist like Prince with a vast body of work you really don't need to do Purple Rain or When Doves Cry but you may do it anyway for old times sake.

there's the rather frightening thing that was happening to Brian Regan a few years ago...where he'd come back for an encore, ask the audience for requests.

I saw Brian Regan a few years back and he did an entirely new act (I think it was the Epitome of Hyberbole show) and once his act was over he left the stage only to come back 5 minutes later and take request from the audience and from that point the crowd in the theater yelled out "poptarts, eye doctor, baseball..." and he did them all and closed his show with old material. I just remember thinking wow he has to do that in every city he travels too.


Everyone has old standbys. I remember Richard Pryor saying alright this is the last time I do Mudbone! However my father said occasionally he'd bring the character back for shows much to deafening applause.

[pg13]

if you're Tommy Tutone you can't leave a performance without doing Jenny 867-5309 (I think that was her phone number) because honestly we don't know anything else. But if you're an artist like Prince with a vast body of work you really don't need to do Purple Rain or When Doves Cry but you may do it anyway for old times sake.

Don't make music analogies when it comes to thinking about comedy.

* Music can be enjoyed passively--whereas comedy really only works when people pay attention.

* Music isn't dependent upon surprise, in fact...there's a reason that most popular music is centered around riffs and choruses...it is the recognition of repetition that people tend to enjoy (which a) explains house music and b) does not apply to Phish-heads)--whereas comedy's chief weapon is surprise. Well, surprise and fear.

*Music is segmental...one badly played part of a song doesn't truly "ruin" a song (except on Guitar Hero and Rock Band, but that's not really "music") and one bad song doesn't necessarily ruin a concert--comedy is both consequential and architectural. Each joke will build upon each other, influencing how audiences react to future jokes...and the whole thing can topple like a Jenga tower if improperly built or if wrong moves are made.

Musicians, even drug-addled, old and hideous ones, can usually get laid after a gig--comedy...well, let's just assume things are different for most of us and leave it at that...

I saw Brian Regan a few years back and...etc. etc.

Yeah, I know...that's why I referenced that in my post. (And, as I said in my post, when I saw Brian last summer, I noticed that he was avoiding that now by doing specific newly written "encore material".)

Everyone has old standbys. I remember Richard Pryor saying alright this is the last time I do Mudbone! However my father said occasionally he'd bring the character back for shows much to deafening applause.

I got the feeling that Mudbone was often an improv bit...and if true, that wouldn't be quite the same thing.

But, I do know that I saw Cosby a few years ago...and after nearly two hours of new material, he came back for an encore and did "Dentist" (from "Himself"). It was fun to see it performed live (obviously why he was doing it) but I could sense no particular joy from Cosby in doing that... Granted, he's rather curmudgeonly and doesn't show particular joy in much of anything these days...but compared to the rest of his set that night, "Dentist" didn't feel like a "special treat", it felt forced and regurgitated.

As a fan, I'm selfish enough to have enjoyed it anyway...


pg--And if you're Tommy Tutone, you're a band (not a guy) who have been stuck for over twenty years playing for people at a State Fair waiting for you to play the one song they've ever heard from you. Not a fate I would wish on any comedian.--seattle

[funkyrhino]

Musicians, even drug-addled, old and hideous ones, can usually get laid after a gig--comedy...well, let's just assume things are different for most of us and leave it at that...

basically what you're saying is if I expect groupies then I'm in the wrong field. This saddens me!

Don't make music analogies when it comes to thinking about comedy.

* Music can be enjoyed passively--whereas comedy really only works when people pay attention.

* Music isn't dependent upon surprise, in fact...there's a reason that most popular music is centered around riffs and choruses...it is the recognition of repetition that people tend to enjoy (which a) explains house music and b) does not apply to Phish-heads)--whereas comedy's chief weapon is surprise. Well, surprise and fear.

I know but it was the first thing that came to my mind. Don't ask me why Tommy Tutone came to my mind so quickly especially when there are more enjoyable acts like Eddie Money and Billy Squier (am I showing my age or diverse musical taste?); I agree somewhat with the repetition in one art form ie music vs surprise and newness in another art form ie comedy. A friend of mine saw Regan last year and I asked him how the show went and his reaction was 'eh, it was the same stuff he did from the prior year'
Now with that in mind I have to ask a question some relevant but also irrelevant to the topic at and and that is why do we purchase comedy?
I assume the majority of us as consumers don't listen to a comedy album (8 track, cassette, cd, 78, mp3) more than a few times or do we? (I know I do) and if we do then should or should it not negate the 'saw him in person, he did the same act' disappointment that we often times express?



rated R-- I don't know what I'm asking to be honest but I do know that I like to see new material
but I can't speak for the majority since I am a minority, no pun intended but intended if it
creates a smirk... if it seems I'm all over the place it's because I'm on my 3rd cup of Peets.

[pg13]

why do we purchase comedy?

Because we like comedy?

The real question is...why would we listen/watch a comedy album/special more than once?

And I think the answer goes back to the joys of recognition and repetition.

When you hear a joke that you like again--you don't laugh due to surprise, you laugh because the repetition scratches your recognition itch...you're actually laughing at the memory of when you first heard the joke. It pleases you to know where the joke is going.

This explains the "Rocky Horror Picture Show" phenomenon. (That and it allows many theater types their first opportunity to wear drag in public.)

I know, this whole "recognition and repetition" thing contradicts everything I've said about "comedy depends upon surprise"--but humans are curious beasts. Comedy DOES play upon shared references...and the positive feelings associated with puzzle solving.

(Why would anyone buy a jigsaw puzzle? Jigsaw puzzles should be rented (or, at the very least, disposable.) After all, once you've made it...there it is, you've done it. You see what the pieces all look like when fit together and you've accomplished the task (you "got r done" as it were). But people DO buy jigsaw puzzles and they often enjoy putting certainly puzzles together more than once...because doing something again hits different "pleasure centers" in our brain.)

That's the other thing...there are certain comedy albums/specials that have high replay value...and others which are fine to watch or listen to once, but they offer little incentive to watch or listen to it again. (And sometimes we buy those anyway, either not knowing of their limited replay value or simply wanting to own a previously pleasant experience--I know I own many cds, dvds, books...comedy or otherwise...that I like owning but will likely never pull off the shelf again. I think they call it hoarding.)

And the thing I like about that...is I like it when people come over and I can share with them something that I've liked...something that they've never seen or heard. And that sharing with others (much like retelling a joke you heard and liked) hits OTHER pleasure centers in the brain...

pg--And sometimes, we just like the cover art.--seattle

[ErikNielsen]

Don't make music analogies when it comes to thinking about comedy.

Really? I do this all the time. And I think it works a lot of the time. My understanding of pacing, sonic dynamics, set lists, etc. is essentially musical, for example.

I also think that, where it doesn't work, it's generally the fault of comedy as it is done today. A bit that needs to be new to the crowd in order to have an impact is generally an underwritten bit, for example... it's not rich enough to stand up to repeated viewings. Comedy at its best isn't primarily about shocking people -- it's about appreciation.

And yeah, consider the difference between hearing new music by a band you like and hearing this album you've heard twenty times before. Both work, but in different ways. If your comedy isn't doing both, it probably should be.