Categories Brainstorm for Bit Database

[Buckles_B]

Hey all,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I've learned a lot following the conversations on these forums and I thought I would ask for some opinions from the group on this one: I'm working right now on building a Microsoft Access 2007 database for my routines which is going slowly because I'm a bit of a dullard and computers are hard.

Anyways, the idea is to create multiple categories so that some day in the future when I get it all figured out I can narrow down bits for a show or create themed sets with the click(s) of a button.

Blah blah blah. Basically I wanted to see if anyone had anything to add to my categories which are as follows:

TITLE (self explanatory)

TOPIC - Absurd Premise, city life, current event/political, daily minutiae, family, music, nerd humour, pet peeves, religion, seasonal, self deprecating, sex/relationships, sports, travel, vegetarianism, work life

QUALITY - A - Club Quality, B - Needs Work, C - Abandoned

LENGTH - from .5 minutes to 7 minutes

AUDIENCE - City Older, City Younger, City All Ages, Rural Older, Rural Younger, Rural All Ages, Universal, female heavy, pot room, racially mixed (ideally this section would be a checkbox thing where you could select multiple values)

EDGINESS - 1 - Clean, 2 - Language issues but can be modified, 3 - Blue

STYLE - Absurdist, Act-Out Heavy, Alt Comedy, One-liner, Opener, Traditional, Story-telling, impressions

Most of the categories I am pretty happy with except:

Audience - I want to take this into effect, but I don't know if I've got the most efficient categories. I am hoping to make this category like a checkbox style so I can have them occupy multiple placements

Topic and Style seem to bleed together a bit, though I do believe they are different things. This is the main area where I'm looking for suggestions and opinions. Do you think I've missed any sections? is a label in the wrong section?

Hope this isn't too boring! Any suggestions appreciated!

Joel

[ErikNielsen]

Why don't you just make a list of all the jokes you have? It seems unlikely that you're actually going to keep a complex database updated, and it also seems like an awfully unwieldy thing to carry around with you to shows. The less work you have to do, the more likely you are to actually keep up with it.

(Aside from all the issues associated with breaking one's own jokes into "categories", which I would see as an approach to comedy that would do more harm than good on several levels, but I'm willing to concede it's a matter of opinion.)

[drieux]

This seems like a great way to wring every ounce of fun and humor out of being a comedian.

It also reminds me of my friend who vowed to get his finances together by setting up a meticulous spreadsheet budget on Google Docs. He spent so much time perfecting it, he forgot to pay a bunch of his bills that month and ended up even deeper in a hole.

[Buckles_B]

I already keep a list of my bits. It's become unweildy, hence the database. The idea is not to carry the database around but to generate set lists for different types of themed or demographic shows without slogging through my archive and relying on my admittedly spotty memory. It's been a bit of work up front, but I am confident that in the long run it should save a lot of time. Of course when it is finished I hope to share the database template with any interested comics in this community.

I know most comics aren't interested in this level of organization, but I am, and it doesn't make me naive, or a noob, or worthy of your scorn.

Anyways, if you'll take a minute out of your day to shit on an idea, why don't you help me brainstorm? Surely it's a better use of your time?

[drieux]

I know most comics aren't interested in this level of organization, but I am, and it doesn't make me naive, or a noob, or worthy of your scorn.

No scorn intended - personally, it's just a little startling that somebody puts THAT much organizational thought into stockpiling their jokes. If it makes you happy and helps you function and isn't hurting anybody (i.e., causing issues within your personal relationships) then go for it, dude.

But I honestly don't know if you'd even WANT any of my ideas. These days I tend to write a set list, then go in whatever order I feel like once onstage. Last night I went off on two tangents on random ideas that I generated based on crowd reaction and ended up skipping out on half of my intended material anyway. I had a lot of fun, and I hope you enjoy your method as well. Whatever works for you is the right way. Writing this response caused me to look at my notebook, and I've always used Moleskines without lines on the paper, and I presume they're a total mess to anybody but me. I stack 'em on a shelf once they're filled and then barely look at them after transferring the last few set lists into the front of the new one to reference for a while.

I suppose one question would be: are you keeping material for really long periods of time? I understand having solid material to fall back on, but are you still doing jokes from years and years prior?

[drieux]

In a quick look at your list, I do have one suggestion...

Start with your Quality category. A-Clubworthy, B-Needs work, C-Abandoned.

If you're abandoning the joke, why not just delete it altogether? Create a sheet of concepts that you've attempted and not been able to succesfully work out, and otherwise delete the bit. If it's not worth performing or pursuing, then surely it's not worth adding to the length of your (presumably) constantly-growing database?

Similarly, if a bit is simply "Needs Work," why not complete that work prior to inputting it into your system? Keeping things that you wouldn't do for a big set just seems unnecessarily anal - but that's my opinion. Work on it, perform the bit for a while until you think it's properly shaped, THEN put it into your HilarityBot machine.

As for audiences, when you've got a bit that you think is worthy of keeping, maybe just write the name of the club/venue, followed by a + or -? I presume you have a relatively good idea of the typical audiences at the places you regularly perform. To use stuff from my own head:

Improv: +
Rooster T.'s: +
CoBo: +
Punchline: +

Yes, I've put all plusses into my examples, but I am amazing.

Just a few ideas.

[Buckles_B]

Generally my approach is to collect bit fragments and ideas in a moleskeine. When I'm ready to develop a new bit I look through and pick a few with promise. From there I try to write it, word for word, as if it were a speech, working on getting the wording as tight as possible, with an eye to structure like act outs, and specific word choice (consonants are king). Then it's time to take it onstage for my favourite part, discovering phrasings that are more true to my personality and "natural." Script is updated accordingly after reviewing performance videos for positive additions that came spontaneously. Eventually the bit is whittled down into something I'm proud of.

After my first year in which most of what I produced I now consider unusable, I have started to just work on a steady flow of new material. After about 1-2 months of working on a "club worthy" 5, I will move on to a brand new batch. This seemed like the method that would work best for me on building a quality long set. Over time, as the collection of "A material" grows, I hope to be able to approach longer, paid shows in a modular fashion, looking for themes and common ideas to make it cohere better as a whole.

Of course through all this I try to work on riffing, will get side tracked by topical events that grab my imagination, develop general stage presence, and just have a fun-ass time.

But yeah, there's no danger of stagnating, I am one of those new material addicts, I don't like to get totally bored of a bit, I find I'm not a good enough actor to sell it if I'm not genuinely into it anymore. This is why once I'm satisfied with their structure I will leave the bits alone and work on the next ones unless it's a demo or competition or pay gig.

It's a logical approach, and might seem like a lot of work but I'm passionate about the art forms I practice and the system works for me - It's neat that we can all come at it from different directions.

[Buckles_B]

Hm that's a really neat idea about making audience based on venue rather than something more general. Thanks!

As for the abandoned material you hit the nail on the head - I am a bit of a pack rat with archiving, which hopefully the database will make easier to manage.

[drieux]

The venue thing helps me. I record audio of most of my sets, and I write the setlists in my notebook and review them later. When I've got a new bit, it helps to see where I sequenced it in the set, how I segued into it and also the typical crowd. In the Bay Area there are definitely different types of audiences depending on the location of the venue, and what works in San Francisco won't always work at a club in the East Bay. The ultimate goal, of course, is to have stuff that works almost everywhere while still remaining true to yourself. But taking the venue into account helps to adjust my writing and performance a bit.

Luckily I write golden stuff about how retarded gays eat airplane food differently than black people, so my career is mostly a slick road paved with gold and high-fives.

[ErikNielsen]

To be honest, my main issue is with the idea of "categories". In my opinion, the danger of saying "this is a City Life/Traditional/(absurdist) joke," or whatever, is that you're actually going to start thinking that way as a comedian. Trying to fit your material into a pre-conceived structure rather than being guided by inspiration is potentially disastrous. I don't see that approach as conducive to any kind of original development...

As for archiving failed material, I think you're better off not saving it word for word. If you ever want to bring it back, you want to have free rein to rework it, rather than being bound to a set of phrasings that didn't work the first time...

Of course, this is the way I work. You might find that you work differently.

[Buckles_B]

Drieux - that joke about retarded gays eat airplane food differently than black people was yours? I don't want to alarm you, but I think there's some comics out there stealing your material! Haha thanks for the thoughts on categories and making me feel welcome on the boards.

Thanks for chiming in Erik, but I'll repeat that I'm not looking for advice on how to operate as a comic. I know I am new to the board, but that doesn't mean I'm just starting out in comedy. You assume a lot in your posts and frankly you're right - I do work differently from you, and your concerns about your own act don't really apply to me. Would you like to humour me and suggest any categories?

[funkyrhino]

Google Docs or Evernote is all you need. You don't need a complex Access database. You can organize your routines in folders.

[Vercetti]

Google docs is what I use for organization and documenting and all that. Then a notecard with the setlist I want to do written with a pen. Black. Clickable.

Similarly, if a bit is simply "Needs Work," why not complete that work prior to inputting it into your system? Keeping things that you wouldn't do for a big set just seems unnecessarily anal - but that's my opinion. Work on it, perform the bit for a while until you think it's properly shaped, THEN put it into your HilarityBot machine.

That's generally what I do. Work it for awhile, then once it's in a proper state I'll put it into Google docs for storage. I've also got a "stuff to work on" list. Organization is fun like that.

Also, Buckles, once you finish work on this you GOTTA call it the HilarityBot machine. Just because it's an awesome name.

[Buckles_B]

Hahaha maybe I will call it the HilarityBot Machine, thanks for chiming in guys, Ill have to check out Google Docs and see how it works!

[Harry Bongers]

Dat Phan did it and he won Last Comic Standing so it's obviously a recipe for success.