Being Unsatisfied With Your Material

[Dylan Smith]

I started doing open mics and amateur nights for the first time at the beginning of January and I'm starting to realize that I don't like my material. My set is mostly blue one-liners and I don't feel like it accurately represents my brain or being in any way.

I'm sure this is typical for a beginner. I know where I want to be - I see myself in ther future with a more serious, thought-provoking, conversational style - but I know I'm not good enough to get there yet. I also know that the only way to replace the old material is to write new material that I enjoy.

My question is this: what do I do in the meantime? Is it better to slowly work in the new bits in place of current stuff that isn't working, or to take a break until I have a new five minutes ready to go?

I've read that some of my favourite comics with a style in the direction I want to go took years to get there, and I understand that I won't truly find my voice for a while. It seems, though, like I should cut my teeth on the short one-liner type bits until I'm comfortable enough and experienced enough to properly evolve.

Suggestions?

[pg13]

Do what you think is funny, Dylan.

If you don't think what you're doing is funny, for Flying Spaghetti Monster's sake...STOP DOING IT! That is the path of the dark side--doing things that you hate merely because you think others will like them...

What you do in the meantime is write some stuff that you DO like. You may not quite have the skills to do it properly yet...but by doing that, you will learn the correct lessons in how to improve upon what you're doing to better do what you want.

What lessons can you learn by successfully doing material that you hate...that isn't you or what you eventually want to be able to do? Only wrong ones.

Yes, it can take time to develop your own style and find your voice--but that's assuming that you're trying to do what you think you want to do... If you're actively presenting an act that isn't what you want, you're running in the wrong direction.

My suggestion? Salvage whatever you can from your current efforts that you enjoy. Ditch the rest. Spend your time thinking about what you original thoughts you have that you truly find funny and endeavor to share those, through your writing and performance, with audiences. Your failures doing that are far more valuable than any successes you may have with an approach you've already rejected.

Good luck!

pg--Nobody said this was going to be easy.--seattle

[Dylan Smith]

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping to hear from you.

To clarify, I don't necessarily think the material I've written is unfunny. I would go so far as to say I even enjoy the challenge or writing the jokes. I just recognize that those jokes are not me.

My initial plan was to work on a new set while still performing the old one to gain confidence and stage skills. I'd be spinning tires on the original material but when the new engine was ready, I'd have a running start, you know? You do raise some good points about how that could be damaging (or at least unproductive), but do you think there is nothing to gain in the way of stage skills or comfortability and I'm best to stay away from the stage with those jokes?

As for salvaging material, I think I can twist most of it to fit into a new set. I've been keeping files and files of ideas for months and even the material that I find unfulfilling came from the same place the new stuff will. I just need to flesh out the ideas in a way that I find funny.

[pixel revolt]

It sounds like you've been afflicted with premature creative self-awareness. Usually you are supposed to not realize how unsatisfied you are with your material until you reach a place where you have the skills/experience to do something about it. You either already do, and you should just re-focus, or you aren't there yet and you will just need to make do with what you can develop at this stage and fight through your premature creative self-awareness, and all the shame/embarrassment associated with being new at something.

[Dylan Smith]

I do consider myself very self- and socially-aware. Luckily, it has rarely been a negative attribute.

I'm not the type to doubt my skills but I know where they are absent, and my stage skills are absent. I've only been active - sparsely - for a month but there is noticeable improvement with each set. (Side note: I'm sure this levels out after a while, which is probably when most comics shift direction.)

If I'm not yet confident enough to do crowdwork, for example, does it make a real difference whether I'm telling one-liners or longform until I gain that confidence?

[Vercetti]

To clarify, I don't necessarily think the material I've written is unfunny. I would go so far as to say I even enjoy the challenge or writing the jokes. I just recognize that those jokes are not me.

I actually went through this same thing myself recently. For a couple months I had a 5 minute chunk of material that I wrote, rewrote, worked and reworked until I finally admitted to myself that it just wasn't working. I think I was trying for something that had a surreal style to it, but it just didn't fit me at all. My older stuff suits me and feels organic because I'm talking about real, believable things that apply to me. This newer stuff just didn't.

It was good this happened, though, because it gave me a sense of direction of where not to go. Like a sense of "This way isn't for you. Try another way." It's okay if you write a bad joke, lots of people do. You just have to understand WHY the jokes didn't work. That's how you develop and get better and stronger.

[mattmanser]

If you want to have material that goes in a different direction than what you've been doing, you don't have to write an entire set of that before you starting doing it. You can have just one joke, or even the start of a joke, and try it out in the middle of doing your other stuff.

[Phil]

If you want to have material that goes in a different direction than what you've been doing, you don't have to write an entire set of that before you starting doing it. You can have just one joke, or even the start of a joke, and try it out in the middle of doing your other stuff.

+1

[FF Woodycooks]

May I direct you to this Ira Glass quote that I read probably once a week (which is about how often I get discouraged/frustrated with my material):

"Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through."

[mikemayberry]

Do whatever you think is fun and enjoyable on stage. If it starts to suck, try doing something different on stage. If it is fun but you aren't getting a lot of laughs, just keep going up. Record your sets and listen to them multiple times. Learn from your previous experience. Write more. Talk out bits by yourself or with other wannabe comics.

I also want to say that I go through this too, I just started out the opposite way. I usually can only do 2 or 3 subjects in 5 minutes. I have tried crowd work with some success, there were a couple of open mics where I would go up last and just talk shit about other performers. I have written songs. I have used twitter to write short jokes.

But the reason I am now doing all of this is because I crave the attention of being on stage. It makes me feel really good and when I am not doing it a lot, I miss the high. I also get super depressed after performing, which is usually when i listen to recorded sets, which leads to a lot of self-loathing. Which leads to editing and re-editing jokes. Then scrapping them all together.

After a lot of stage time, and 18 months of writing, I have 4 minutes that works well and one joke that gets a good laugh every time. That is probably not good in most peoples' opinion, but I feel ok about it because I am doing something that allows me to demand people listen to me.

[Vercetti]

If you want to have material that goes in a different direction than what you've been doing, you don't have to write an entire set of that before you starting doing it. You can have just one joke, or even the start of a joke, and try it out in the middle of doing your other stuff.

This is actually how I did it. Slowly built new stuff around older stuff and then just switched the main focus to the newer stuff. It wasn't until later that I realized the new stuff didn't suit me. It's not BAD material, it got laughs, but I just had the general thought of "I can do better" and mothballed it.

[Ryan Carrier]

OP, I can relate. There's not a lot of open mic opportunities where I live right now so I have more time to think (obsess) over things than I do getting on stage. So I've been all up in my head about what I want to talk about rather than just going up and finding out. It's fine.

I'm not experienced in the least but my advice as a comedy fan and human being would be if you don't like what you're doing, do what you do like. There's always going to be that balance of what you want and what works and that shit evolves over time, just like with anything in life ever. I've already given up on trying to focus on writing observational stuff because that's not I'm passionate about in my personal life. So I'm going to yelling about religion and drugs on stage until something funny comes out because that's what I personally like to talk about. Or maybe I'll decide I like talking about "boy riding the bus is weird" later. I don't know. Don't let it consume your thoughts too much. Write. Get on stage. Repeat. You can throw "Smoke a weed" in there if you want.

[ErikNielsen]

If I'm not yet confident enough to do crowdwork, for example, does it make a real difference whether I'm telling one-liners or longform until I gain that confidence?

Well, it depends. When you're imagining your future career path, does crowdwork play a role in it? Are you just marking time with material until you can break out as a guy who mostly does crowdwork?

(If so, I don't know what to tell you. The mystery of how some comics start working the crowd is a mystery to me indeed.)

I mean, there are so many more questions.

- Have you written jokes that are more like the material you ultimately want to do? If so, have you tried performing them? If not, do you find it difficult to write in that mode? There are preferences and preferences, but the one thing that's going to impose a hard limit on your options is the ability/inability to come up with certain types of ideas. Before I started comedy, I probably would've guessed I would become a deadpan one-liner comic like Steven Wright. It turns out that my natural inclination is not to come up with a lot of one-liners.

- Is your relationship to your audience different? Every performer has to engage the audience from a certain angle. When I hear "blue one-liners," I think of either a guy like Dan Mintz, who plays a detached weirdo, or a guy like Anthony Jeselnik, who plays a jerk with a mock-arrogant relationship with a the crowd. Needless to say, that approach gets ito be second nature after a while. So if you're eventually planning to alter it drastically... well, you'll have to un-learn a bunch of stuff you're doing instinctively, and that can be a mess.

I mean, the fact that you "recognize that those jokes are not me" is in and of itself just basic self-awareness. Nobody is "them" on stage. But I assume you mean "these jokes present me as a person who I'm not comfortable portraying, even in the context of a comedy show," or possibly "I can't imagine these jokes fitting side by side with the jokes I really want to do."

But yeah. I'm not the first to say it, but the first step is to write the kind of jokes you want to write. Try them on stage, and you'll get a sense of where you are with relation to that approach, and whether the new stuff can fit in with the old stuff at all. And if you can't come up with the kind of jokes you want to write, well, I'd consider going with the stuff you're inspired to do and putting the stuff you're not currently inspired to do in the back of your mind.

[nixonjames]

Some older comics have told me that to some degree this feeling may never leave you. Many of the best are driven by a desire to improve that is unattainable. As a result they push further than some others who may play it safe.

If you've been doing it a month I wouldn't worry.

I went to see Patton Oswalt do a bookreading with some comics a few weeks ago and when asked what advice or words of wisdom he would have for someone in the early stages (the girl who asked said about a year in and still mostly sludging thru open mics)... he said. Get up every day. Get up as much as you can. The only way to get better is to do comedy every night, and if there's nowhere to do comedy on that night, start a place and do comedy. He also reminded us to do EVERYTHING you could possibly want, that NOW is the time to be doing this. He assured us that the cream always rises to the top, that we are in an enviable position because we are still forming our persona/character/angle as opposed to someone like himself that is somewhat restricted by it at this point in his career. Lastly he expounded that in this age 'not getting seen' is never an excuse. Between twitter, blogs, youtube, etc... if you are making comedy and it is consistently very funny, someone will take notice.

Lastly, I had a conversation much like what you're saying with another younger comic tuesday and i thought he had a good approach... Don't worry about, am I as funny as I want to be one day, just be funny for now. Every great comic took years and years to get there... I'm sure Louis CK and Bill Hicks told more than their share of stupid shocking dick jokes before finding their stride.

Anyways, take it as a compliment that you see a higher purpose and do what you can with what you have to get there. I've found that roughly every 3 months something in my brain clicks and I automatically hate 90% of what I'm doing and spend a month replacing almost all of it. So find what works for you and stick with it.

Finding your voice takes years. Learn to tell a joke first.

[Critic]

+1

+2 Also, it wouldn't hurt to listen to more comics and try to analyze how they get their material across.

[nixonjames]

+2 Also, it wouldn't hurt to listen to more comics and try to analyze how they get their material across.

While time consuming this has been a great exercise for me. Breaking it down, line by line, and seeing how that plays out has helped a ton in trying to discern how different people are funny and how to better fine tune one's own voice.

[pg13]

This is an odd thing to admit, but I'm shaken...and I don't quite know how to proceed.

I received some comedic advice recently--which is unusual to begin with...as I am rarely given advice. That's not to suggest that I'm perfect, I'm as flawed as anyone and I'm well aware of it...but I guess I just don't have friends in comedy who are close enough to feel comfortable (or give a damn enough to be) giving me advice. Or I'm so outwardly cocksure about my understanding of comedy that people feel I won't listen to advice--but of ALL people, I'm aware of the benefit of someone else's perspective.

This advice came from a very credible source...a comedian (and friend) that I've worked with recently, whose opinion is based on solid perception and experience...with a unique insight into how different individuals make their comedy work. He's also a strong enough performer that I know that he knows what he's talking about.

Now, my own take on my comedy is that I'm decent, thoroughly competent performer...but nothing exceptional. I'm nobody's favorite comedian...but, if I'm on a show, I'll get my laughs. My awareness of the potential artistry in comedy is a source of frustration with the rather pedestrian nature of my own work. I feel like my act is rather "glossy"--it doesn't "mean" anything...and while I'm not wasting anyone's time or money who comes to see me, I'm not blowing anyone away either.

I've been criticized for not having a "killer instinct" and relying too much on my material. I was also lampooned when, for many years, I included a "funny headlines" segment in my act--which, I should point out in my own defense that I wasn't just finding "funny news headlines" and reading them...but for each story, I was using the headline and story as the set-up and I was writing my own material/punchlines in reaction to them--until I dropped doing that segment in 2009. (I dropped it because I felt I was writing the same jokes over and over again--a common symptom among topical humorists--and because of people thinking that's all I did or that my doing it wasn't, somehow, "valid".)

And I've also severely reduced my schedule after the birth of my son in September 2009. Part of that was to be closer to home to help raise Simon...but I was also starting to lose the confidence necessary to push myself to get booked more often. And, of course, the longer you stay off the road or off the stage, the harder it is to get yourself back out there and up there...

And, for a touring working professional comedian...you write better when you're performing more (at least, I find.) Because an idea can be tried when you have it...it can face a trial by fire and generate instant self-correction or quick dismissal...and, you're out there living a life, going new places and doing new things, reacting to new stimuli which is what leads to an observational comic's material creation process. Staying at home with the boy, I find myself only reacting to the boy and only observing what's on television...which really isn't helping my sense of my material being rather unimportant and inconsequential.

But, that material is certainly well crafted. It works. And my feeling has always been, if I pushed myself a little harder...if I crafted things a bit better...if I just got myself back out there and do things the way I do things, I'll be fine. I'll trip upon some inspiration, some unpredictable excellence that randomly drops in my lap at just the right time, because my process works.

And then came the advice...and I feel like I'm stopped in my tracks.

The advice he gave me is simple, really.

My friend said that he'd always had problems wondering why my act wasn't stronger...until we started talking about the time I'd spent as a radio dj. He thinks that experience has put up an unnecessary wall between who I actually am and the audience...and that the audience only gets "who I am on stage" and the material, while clever and well crafted, comes across as canned.

He says I have to concentrate on being "me". He says that I have risk more...that I have to risk failure and bomb as myself rather than do decently with what I'm doing now.

My problem is how I act on this advice...because, honestly, I am, as far as I know, "me" on stage. "Me" IS a former radio dj, a former nightclub dj, a husband, a father, a pop culture whore...I eat bad food, I watch tons of television, I have reasonable opinions on almost everything and the knowledge to talk intelligently on any subject for 30 seconds.

I'm not doing anything that feels "false" to "me". Other than wanting to do well, I'm not artificially preventing myself from doing something that I'm burning to do. If I avoid risking failure on stage, it is exactly because that trait is part of who I am as a person...and always has been. It would seem more "false" to pretend to be more of a risk taker...is my friend's concept of who "I" am, to him, based more on an incorrect perception of who he thinks I am and that the reality is much less interesting than he could possibly imagine?

Instead of just giving me advice on my comedy, he's made me confront the very disturbing sense that I'm simply not all that much of a person.

(Dramatic much? Yeah, sometimes.)

I don't know how to proceed. I had confidence in thinking that I just had to get myself back out there...to jump in the pool and I'd remember how to swim. Now, I've got no strategies or tactics to become more of a self that I don't think I am. I'm paranoid that by continuing to be the comedian that I've been on stage for eight years now that I'm somehow short-circuiting the only path towards progress that matters...

...or maybe I am just wasting everyone's time, including my own.

I love doing comedy. I've been a performer my whole life, I've been a writer, I've been clever...and stand-up comedy (and everything that might spring from it) feels like the culmination of everything I've ever been... I understand, better than some perhaps, how the mechanics work and how I can use what I know and what I'm capable of doing to do it successfully. I also know that simply by continuing to keep myself in the game that I can scrounge out a living...a career of sorts...even if I never reach the highest possible heights that this career could offer.

...but, I remember exactly why I quit the radio industry--despite being perfectly competent and successful. I was a program director and drive-time on air personality in a successful small market station...and yet, I could sense that I was never going to be more than that. I wasn't striving to take full advantage of my opportunities...I wasn't pushing myself...and I wasn't feeling like I was so special that I was suddenly, magically, just going to be much better than I was...and I felt, idealistically, that those who were achieving the success that I couldn't see myself achieving had earned it by either trying harder than I was capable of trying or being better than I was proving to be.

And so, despite having gone to broadcasting school right out of high school, despite having carved out a career in my chosen field and being decently successful at it...and despite it being the culmination of everything that I've ever been or wanted to be...I completely dropped out of broadcasting. I quit...because I didn't think I should keep doing something so special in such an un-special way.

(Only to move, some years later, to a major market where I found that the people working at the radio stations that I'd dreamed of some day working weren't magically special or supernaturally motivated. They were just around when the opportunities came and did as good of a job as I could have...probably.)

Am I doing it again? Am I cursed to always collapse under the weight of my self-doubt?

Can I think my way into being less in my own head? Can I use my process and the systems I've learned to become more natural and organic? Can I accept being flawed to the point of irrelevance or can I change myself into being something I can't imagine?

The only thing that I know is that his advice FELT accurate. I'm not going to simply reject his perspective. There's been something wrong with my comedy efforts, something incomplete...and it's been something that I couldn't put my finger on...and I think he nailed it.

I'm just not certain how to proceed. How do I fix it?

I worry that I'm about to start to feel like I shouldn't.

pg--There are worse things in this world than not being a stand-up comic. I could still produce shows, write stuff, teach others. But if I do it, I should be able to do it well.--seattle

PS--Yes, I should stop caring about what other people think. And yes, I should stop being so dependent upon pleasing others for my own sense of self-worth. But again, I don't think either of those factors is preventing me from doing anything that I might want to do or saying anything I might want to say on stage.

The sad realization that this advice has given me is that maybe there just isn't anything in particular I want to do on stage...or that I don't have anything particularly meaningful to say. And if not, what am I doing asking people to pay money to see me do it or say it?

[NoahOdabashian]

Wow.

Thats heavy.

I feel totally ill equipped to offer any sort of advice, but: My first set was jokey jokes. My second set was one liners (because thats what was most common where I did my first set). After a -short- while, I just started mining material out of stuff I have been scared or unwilling to talk about in my personal life. I found a lot more success there than my witty takes on pop culture or current events.

Now, I am talking about things that are deeply scary to me. Stuff that messes me up if I dwell on it. It's really worked and no one can really steal the jokes- not that I am worried about that. Just because it's so autobiographical, so, I mean, at the very least its me.

Thats a heavy post, PG.

[mighty hubris]

hey pg13,

there is no thought that will lead you to any satisfying conclusion for what's troubling you

accept that your feelings are transitory; your self-doubt will wane and you will return to the stage and feel like a million bucks, of course, that will fade and you'll return to your present state...

but that's the point, be aware that's its just a wave, and ride it

and don't measure yourself against others

regardless of the level of your success, the amount of respect you receive from your peers, the proximity with which you get to your most fantastic, egomaniacal comic ideals, etc...you still gotta ride the wave

you might be a bland person with a generic comic insight, or you might have the spiritual love child of George Carlin and Richard Pryor slowly lurking inside until it finally develops, connects and then subsumes your present comic voice, or maybe (surely) you fall somewhere in between

any way, it doesn't matter, its all good

and to make sure it remains good, all you gotta do is be pure in your pursuits

just be pure

and regularly smoke marijuana

and take mushrooms several times in your life, eventually building to a dosage of at least an 1/8 of an oz.

[SeanX3]

Also: late bloomer? You're in excellent company...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_bloomer#Adults

I'm 41 and only starting. The conventional wisdom is that I'll be funny when I'm 51. And then I'll probably be where you are: got some chops but wondering if I'm just wasting my life. Or I'll be a amazing comedian, but then I'll cancer and die.

You are where you are. Just do what you do.