Any tips/suggestions re learning Crowd Work.

[nixonjames]

So in the past few weeks discussions have brought up some interesting things as well as seeing the finals of the Boston Comedy Festival and watching comics I've seen absolutely kill small rooms look like they're flailing or nonexistant in the theatre setting.

For some reason it game me impetous to start figuring out how to do/practice crowd work. I'm curious b/c I'm torn on whether this makes sense at an open mic that often... most of the audience is comics they're distracted and not paying attn anyway... Seems like you need an audience to do crowd work...

Just wondering how I can acquire this skill as it seems one that has to come from practice but at the same time I don't want to waste valuable club stage time ... so I'm not sure what is the best way to acquire this skill set.

Any thoughts or stories from experience?
When I've reacted and bounced off the crowd organically it's been very strong but I don't want to rely on an idea of ingrained skill.

[pg13]

Ain't nothin' to it but to do it.

Crowd work is a skill that MUST be developed on stage. It is mostly about confidence (and a little bit about the ability to recall information quickly and accurately, and a little bit more about the ability to manipulate circumstances to where you want them to be)--and confidence is only gained by experience. You'll be confident when you know you can do something because you've done it before and you know what needs to be done.

But let's talk a little bit about exactly what you're talking about when you say "crowd work."

To me...there are two excellent examples of recorded "crowd work" available for review. Howie Mandel's mid-80's "Fits Like a Glove" album and Jimmy Pardo's more recent "Pompous Clown" cd. (This may be one of the few places in the world that THOSE two performers have been used as examples of ANYTHING in common.)

I wish Jimmy was still around here to talk about his process. When he engages specific people in the crowd ("What's your name, young man...Jerry?"), is he pushing them towards specific answers that he has some planned material (either material that was written or had been generated and successful in a previous foray into the crowd) or is he truly playing things exactly how they come?

Because listening to Howie Mandel's album, it is very clear that he's pushing audience members to pre-planned bits of material...and his mind acts as a quick-retrieval database for stored information. He's written jokes for various names, so when he asks audience members what their name is, he's hoping they have a name that he's written a joke about. If they don't, then he asks them for what they do for a living...as he's written a bunch of jokes about a bunch of jobs. If their answer again goes without a hit, he may ask them where they're from or if the person next to them is their significant other (prompting him to ask THAT person for THEIR information...hoping for a hit from them.)

It is all a fairly rigid process--and because of that rigid process, there's a "gamesmanship" aspect to it all. For someone who knows how it is done, crowd work feels like a magic trick where you can see where the bunny is hiding--not terribly impressive or exciting.

It works because there's a sense of danger--and doing it well means reducing the actual danger (by being ready for as many circumstances as you can) while maintaining the illusion of danger. When it doesn't work is because there IS danger--you're ceding absolute control of the stage and your performance. You're opening the door to the idea that the audience participating in what you're doing is entertaining...and if you don't absolutely command the stage, you can be overrun by overeager (and often drunk) audience members hoping to "participate" and "help your act."

When learning crowd work, you'll probably lose control of the room...as you don't know where your blind spots are in order to protect them. Learning how to prevent losing control AND learning how to recover and regain control after you've lost it are things that you can really only learn by doing...and failing.

It all depends on (and adds to) your comfort level on stage...and that is DEFINITELY worth spending some of your valuable stage time. HOWEVER, you can choose WHEN you feel comfortable enough to spend some of that stage time...and it probably helps to have mastered many other necessary skills as a comedian, so if your crowd work goes wrong, you can rely on those skills. Hard to imagine someone who hasn't learned how to craft a proper joke or read a crowd to determine what jokes will work best or how to put together a set that builds to a climax...diving into crowd work and hoping to swim.

pg--seattle

PS--There is another risk to crowd work...which is learning to depend on it. Guess what! You can't really do crowd work when you appear on television. You can't really do crowd work from the stage of a big theater (especially when there's an orchestra pit and significant height differences between the audience and the stage.) And, especially in a competition setting, the comedian STILL has to establish audience rapport...without the tricks inherent in generic crowd work.

...and that's another thing that's hard to practice without actually doing it.

[Unholy PCP]

PS--There is another risk to crowd work...which is learning to depend on it.

Paula Poundstone, I would say, depends too much on crowd work. Not to say she's not funny-cause she is. But there was one special I saw of her's where she would just ask audience members question after question and, to me, made the whole thing uncomfortable.

Maybe it was just a one time thing

[Vercetti]

I have a few specific jokes that start with me engaging the crowd a little. They don't REQUIRE that I do so, but it makes it more fun and interesting overall. Crowd work is a good skill to have because spontaneous moments are always fun, but it's good to not rely on it.

[Bucky_Sinister]

Don't work the crowd unless they're already on your side.

Also, (and keep in mind this is only one man's opinion) I think only the headliner should work the crowd. If I have 20 minutes or less onstage, I can't spare the stage time to work the crowd. I want to work on my material.

[nixonjames]

Don't work the crowd unless they're already on your side.

Also, (and keep in mind this is only one man's opinion) I think only the headliner should work the crowd. If I have 20 minutes or less onstage, I can't spare the stage time to work the crowd. I want to work on my material.

And I agree. So for someone who's working on material at showcases and booked bars and doing open mics the rest of the time. I know I want to get to the point that I can engage an audience for a long period of time and feel like crowd work is an essential skill. Yet how do I go about getting constructive practice... hmmm.

It would appear that as with everything else comedy related the answer is just to do it and keep it in perspective. But I've got to add it to my repertoire as I don't see being able to do 1hr+ regularly without being able to intermingle 10-15min of crowd work when necessary.

[Bucky_Sinister]

Here's another thing: check out headliners who do a lot of crowd work. see them four or five times in one week.

Best at it: Patrice O Neal. Dom Irrera.
Two other guys (not so much to my taste but do well): Scott Capurro, Bobby Slayton.

You'll see how much of their work is the same every time, and how much of it is improvised. When they do material, and when they go to the crowd.

[Roadside Phil]

This is a great discussion. Personally I think you can do an hour with no crowd work. Like PG said, it doesn't work well in big venues. So you can watch some of the theater level acts to see how they engage a crowd without actually doing crowd work.

Like Vercetti, I have just a couple of bits that lead in with some crowd engagement. If it's working I can milk it. If it's not I can get off it quick and jump into the bit. I don't like to go looking in the crowd for material.

I will do something if it calls out to me in the room somehow. For myself that means being really in the moment and being aware of what's going on in the room. And also not editing myself at all. If it appears in my head, it comes out of my mouth. Works great on stage. Regularly pisses off my girlfriend at home.

Two of my favorite lesser-known crowd riffers - Joe Klocek in San Francisco and BT from Indianapolis. Joe can work forever just with the front row. BT seems to have a bit for every comment that comes out of the audience.

[SeanX3]

One of my favorite jokes is a Todd Barry bit from his CCP where he talks to a Sweedish woman about touring Sweden for three months month, starting with — "No way!" — a gig in a veteran's hall in the town she lives in. Back and forth with her the whole time, completely awesome.

[nixonjames]

One of my favorite jokes is a Todd Barry bit from his CCP where he talks to a Sweedish woman about touring Sweden for three months month, starting with — "No way!" — a gig in a veteran's hall in the town she lives in. Back and forth with her the whole time, completely awesome.

Yes I remember this clip and it's amazing. I think crowd work is looking like it will provide natural opportunities to pop up. A couple of shows I've done in the past month have had pretty inattentive audiences and I'm thinking that's the answer. Practice crowd work when you have to... if they aren't listening or engaging it's not like you're material will work... and as long as I'm not getting paid or have any expectations to do a certain set with certain reqs fro a booker then I think I'll just start messin with it and gettin a feel for it.

Great discussion guys, lots of things to keep in mind and take under consideration.

[Buckles_B]

Lots of good stuff said already - I would say a really good place to work out kinks in your crowd work is "dead" rooms, I'm talking open mikes with three or four people.

In a crowd that small, your planned set is already a bit of a wash-out - you will gain some experience from the simple act of repeating your lines, but you won't have an accurate idea of whether the jokes work, etc.

When I'm in these situations, I still work out new material, but a switch flips in my mind, where I allow myself to meander, go off track with someone in the audience, and generally open things up.

I think pg is so right that crowd work just takes a lot of stage time, and I would say probably the most important ingredient is comfort onstage, the feeling that nothing can ruffle you. I deliberately didn't dabble much in crowd work for the first couple of years because I was full of nerves onstage, trying to remember bits, and not yet confident in my material.

In that sense I suppose I would say crowd work is a skill set that grows the most as a comic becomes intermediate/advanced in their knowledge of the form (nothing to do with time, more experience). Neglecting crowdwork early on didn't really hurt my development I don't think, and now that I'm ready to focus on it, it's probably saved me from some bad habits (i.e. what people are saying about relying on it)