Word on the street. Was just wondering what the thoughts were here from any local Seattle comics or Giggles headline regulars.
Any info? Who is the new owner(s)? Will it still be a comedy club?
Looks like the previous owner's farewell night is the 30th of April.
So I am guessing the switchover starts shortly after that.
Terry was leasing Giggles from the building owner, Bob Davis, who ran it before Terry.
Bob's expected, as far as I know, to take it over. (He's wanted the club back for quite some time--and he tried to open a competing comedy club, the Urban Comedy Cafe, a few years back. He's also wanted to open strip clubs various places...so, nothing is certain.)
We'll know more soon, that's for sure.
pg--Was banned from setting foot at Giggles in 2006 and haven't been back, so I can't be a primary source of information on this--seattle
We'll just take the fact that this was too long and that you didn't read it...as read.
Do we know this story already? I'd love to hear it, unless it's super sad, and then I'd REALLY love to hear it.Originally Posted by pg13
Totally understand if it's not something you want to share, but just know that there's interest.
Hey, check me out. I'm a ghost.
I would like to hear that story as well. I've a read a few articles regarding the vibe at Giggles being tense and is somewhat strict with use of cuss words.
I am just getting into stand up in Seattle and am curious about the current ATS opinions of Seattle's venue's. Giggles open mic seemed a bit more of a low key environment compared to the Underground which was kind of multiple rapid fire 3 minute sets. I like the extra time Giggles has available but it does seem more of a college audience.
Never been to Kirkland's Laughs open mic but it is a bit further away from where I live. I had a friend tell me I should check out Laff Hole at Chop Suey.
Jesus. You're asking ME to talk about THAT...?
"Yeah, I know you're an alcoholic...but surely one drink or two won't kill ya, right?"
All right, let's see if I can just take a sip...
First off, to Dream Catcher--if you enjoy the kind of comedy that is celebrated on AST...then, by all means YES...get your ass to Laff*Hole at Chop Suey and go to any show that PRoK puts on.
However, these are not open mics. You'll have to get noticed by the PRoK folks elsewhere to get invited to perform on their shows. And PRoK folks never go to Giggles.*
As far as the Comedy Underground goes--they used to have open mics on Sunday in addition to Mondays and those wanting stage time could thus be better spaced out. Now, with only Monday as an open mic...well, Carl told me that this past Monday they had 70 comics sign up...and that's why the sets are so short. (He still managed to put up 37...and bumped 33 to next week...which means that some will be double bumped!)
And you should go to Laughs. Great club! They book great comics on the weekends (Jackie Kashian is there this weekend...yay Jackie!) Not sure what the current policy is with their open mic--as they too have struggled with what to do with too many comics looking for stage time...so, you might want to go once just to see how they do things...
As far as "it's a bit further away from where I live" goes--you'll get no sympathy from me. If you want to do this comedy thing...be prepared to suck it up and accept some minor inconveniences. There are people on this board who have to drive 3 hours for their nearest available stage time (and then back)...so, unless you live in Moses Lake, QUIT YER BITCHIN'. (And if you live in Moses Lake...you should move. Seriously.)
Harummmph.
Now then...about why I haven't been to Giggles in over four years...
Man...I want to tell the WHOLE story. I mean, there's a potential MOVIE there (and would definitely require a even more Tolstoy-esque post from me to tell the tale) but the lesson of my year so far has been trying not to create any more unnecessary drama that I've caused myself from blabbing my opinions on the internet...
Edited (all the fun's taken out) version:Spoiler:
pg--Step one, admit that you have a problem with blabbing too much on the internet (and then edit all you can.)--seattle
*--...actually, I understand that some of the newer PRoKsters do occasionally go to Giggles. Again, I can no longer be a primary source on what happens at Giggles (or, really, what happens within PRoK, for that matter...)
Last edited by pg13; April 19, 2010 at 4:01 PM. Reason: Those who were interested read the original version.
We'll just take the fact that this was too long and that you didn't read it...as read.
Wow, thanks for the insight into a brief history of your battle with Giggles. Even if you are "off the wagon" in telling it again, I appreciate the honesty. I'm interested to see the shape it takes once ownership switches over. If it's the same then I guess I can tough it out for the experience. I think at this point I just need to get on stage. I've checked out a few of the PRoK comics on youtube and they definitely share more of the unconventional comedy I enjoy. If they are frequenting any of the surrounding clubs aside from their Chop Suey nights then that is probably where some potential "recruitment" stems from.
Oh, and sorry, I wasn't intending to sound too lazy to head to Kirkland. I think I meant to say I have just gotten into going to the open mics regularly (as an audience member/researcher/n00b) and haven't gotten the chance to drive up there yet. I only started delving into this stuff about 3 weeks ago and have no qualms about travel regarding performing and it is definitely on my list of places I would love to bomb at. I saw Stanhope up there a few years ago. Great Show.
Edit-I'm young and don't know what I really think about anything-
Last edited by Goodspaceguy; April 23, 2010 at 11:53 PM.
Also, I think pg13 covered the details of the deal pretty well. Bob Davis gets the club in May, he might make it into a strip club, the rest is anyone's guess.
One thing I will say for Giggles is that because Terry is so busy working the bar during the open mics and because of the tight-knit community of the club, comics get a lot more freedom to just fuck around during the shows. One of Seattle's most uniquely amusing acts - an offensive comedy robot named Robo - probably wouldn't exist had it's creators not had someone with the patience to let them put a trashcan with remote-controlled wheels on stage, tell jokes about how their favorite ride at Wild Waves is the 14-year-old pussy from the back mic and then crash it into one of the nearby tables.
Sounds like one of the old guard that is more focused on making people pay their dues than he is about harboring a creative environment. The "That's showbiz kid" kind of mentality seems a little outdated with the invention of Youtube and Vimeo. Who really wants to be on television with all that advertising and creative limitation anyways. There are a few great shows out there between Comedy Central, FX, and Cartoon network, but for the most part it might be better to perfect the art how you like, spread it around online and if the industry wants it they can pay for it.
Maybe if a few more bars and coffee houses around town replaced some of their trivia and karaoke nights with an open mic the showbiz attitude that lingers around from 1980's LA might dissipate.
Seattle is great, in that, in the past (at least with music) we made them come to us.
Last edited by JManderville; April 20, 2010 at 1:54 PM.
Give credit where credit is truly due.
If you want to celebrate Robo...then give props to Matt Lauro and Louie Fox. Louie is a crowd-pleasing comedy magician (who could entertain comedy club audiences making shadow puppets!)...and, when I started out, Matt was one of the hot young comedians in the Giggles scene (who still has the best Contra code joke I've ever heard.)
THEY made Robo...and they made Robo (at least for those of us who like fake robots telling dead hooker jokes) funny. Credit them--not the fact that Terry refused to properly staff his business, nor provide any mentorship, nor ensure that "more freedom to fuck around during the shows" didn't mean that the untended to audience was subjected to endless self-indulgent nightmares of never-ending meandering in the guise of a comedy show.
I think that comedians who have emerged from the Giggles scene as talented and capable comics deserve all of the credit for being able to craft their efforts in an atmosphere that can charitably be considered "challenging" at best. They took their own initiative in the vacuum offered.
To think that the environment deserves the credit reminds me of an ancient Paula Poundstone joke: "When they took you out to the middle of the lake and pushed you out of the boat, they weren't trying to teach you how to swim. Just like when they were shooting at you, they weren't teaching you how to deflect bullets."
pg--Or, more simply: In spite of...not because of.--seattle
PS--
The LAST thing the Seattle comedy scene needs is more places presenting comics who are still learning how to do comedy...and presenting it as if that's what "comedy" (and "a comedy show") is...
The scene is saturated with shows that exist mostly to grant the people who run those shows the ability to put up other comics who have their own shows so those comics put them up on their shows. Audiences are learning that comedy shows aren't worth paying to see...that even getting to see a show for free might not be worth it.
We don't need more open mics in more bars. This city has PLENTY of stage time available already. What we really need are FEWER shows, but far BETTER shows. Shows with a point of view, shows that demand that the performers step their game up and deliver something worthwhile, original and "national caliber"..or not get to be involved until they can do that. That's the only way to make the general public start to think that "local comedy" is worth their time and money...
...but good luck making THAT happen.
Shame, then, that almost every promising comedian from the past five years has moved away...because they don't think there's any point in sticking around...
I think we had something pretty special in this city's comedy scene a few years ago.
I don't really know what we have now.
I guess we'll see.
We'll just take the fact that this was too long and that you didn't read it...as read.
Fair enough. I didn't mean to take any credit from Matt and Louie, who are admittedly incredibly awesome and very nice. Giggles does tend to foster that perception that comedic success is directly related to the amount and type of stage time logged and I agree with you that to a certain degree that's a myth.
I don't necessarily agree with this sentiment. Even if a generation of talented comedians have taken exodus from Seattle, I wouldn't say this city has no potential for a great comedy scene. I know several of the young comics you've been complaining about and while they're not "national caliber" yet several of them have been steadily improving into people with incredibly entertaining acts and a great deal of promise. Comedy obviously has a steep learning curve and, yeah, it's difficult to watch sometimes, but they're gradually getting better and nearing something repeatedly worth people's time and money (though mostly time since most of those bar shows are free).We don't need more open mics in more bars. This city has PLENTY of stage time available already. What we really need are FEWER shows, but far BETTER shows. Shows with a point of view, shows that demand that the performers step their game up and deliver something worthwhile, original and "national caliber"..or not get to be involved until they can do that. That's the only way to make the general public start to think that "local comedy" is worth their time and money...
...but good luck making THAT happen.
Shame, then, that almost every promising comedian from the past five years has moved away...because they don't think there's any point in sticking around...
I think we had something pretty special in this city's comedy scene a few years ago.
I don't really know what we have now.
I will admit though that the "bar showcase" format is a little annoying and would be happy to find some people to join in making a show that's more than just seven ten-minute acts and a headliner.
Good -- part of the problem -- spaceguy
Is it better to take the little bit of great with the huge amount of bad. It could almost be like giving up looking for pearls because you have to shuck so many empty clams..If I may use some horrible analogy.
After hearing the arguments against the idea of free open mic nights at bars/coffeeshops, that does seem like it could be a bit counterproductive to harboring an exclusive higher-standard atmosphere for local comedy. But is it a necessary evil, much like the watching 15 horrible local bands on a bill if it gives stage time to the 1 or 2 creative bands that will stand out and build a fanbase naturally? Even the comedy legends are great in their own right, but even better in contrast by standing out amongst the large community of awful comics. It gave them a common adversary to challenge and contrast to create their art and their fanbase.
Is it better to perform to a small handful of paying audience members with high standards, rather than a packed room of walk-ins that you could educate/win over or bomb in front of and get better. Kind of like a spiking the punchbowl tactic to building a local paying audience. Is exclusivity the key to building a comedy scene in Seattle? If the issue is about making money, then I guess I am out on the conversation because I don't know much about running business.
Again, I really am new to this and have no idea of the current climate of creative comedy scene in Seattle. I do love going to pretty much any local stuff both good and bad, cover or no-cover.
Last edited by JManderville; April 21, 2010 at 11:29 AM.
My biggest issue is that right now in Seattle, too often, shows exist because comics want places to practice.
Shows should happen because there's an audience for comedy shows, that there is a demand for comedy shows...and that a show has been created that can motivate an audience to want to see it.
I'm not trying to say that "work out rooms" and open mics shouldn't exist--obviously, comedy is a craft that is learned by doing...and Seattle is blessed with more available stage time than most major cities...and that's a good thing.
But I worry that these kind of shows are becoming the norm...that too often they're not being seen for what they should be, which is merely a means to an end. They're becoming the end. They're becoming what a "comedy show" is...and that's not exactly something that comedy fans are clamoring for...it's not what they really want to go and see.
"If you like steak, you go to a steakhouse and not a slaughterhouse.
...or a cooking school."
What is there for local comics to strive for? What goal does a Seattle comic have to work hard to earn and deserve? It is that kind of hunger that produces the motivation for quality and not settling for comfortable mediocrity.
(And I realize I'm veering dangerously close to being the pot calling the kettle black...but I've resisted from starting a new show since my 2006 show closed because I didn't want to just add another show to the saturated noise of the local scene. When I do start a new show, trust me...it's going to be a SHOW. But, I'm finding it hard now to get other comics to want to be involved in creating such a show because they're satisfied with getting stage time whenever they want to do whatever they want without having to try very hard... And I think that's becoming the problem.)
Shows that are free to the public are even worse, in my mind...because they're the least likely to be carefully curated AND they teach the public that comedy doesn't have to be paid for--that it isn't WORTH anything. (And too often the shows that are free to the public live up to that billing, precisely.)
There are legitimate reasons for why a comedy club should offer open mic nights--although they should recognize it as a loss leader, an investment in the vitality of the local comedy scene (and not an exclusive investment at that)... And having a "work out room" type of thing...low key, meant to attract mostly other comics in a supportive environment...without the pressure of having to earn its keep...that's a valuable thing, too.
But for most bars--to imagine them giving up a karaoke or a trivia night to instead do comedy--it should be a show! A show that is meant to draw people in, promising to entertain the people who come to see the show and delivering on that promise...a show that will increase business for the bar above and beyond what they'd have made running some other promotion.
To be honest...comedy is NOT a good promotion for most bars--selling drinks during a comedy show takes some work, and many venues end up losing a lot of money on supposedly popular nights with comedy because drink sales go down.
The mentality has to change. Shows shouldn't exist just because comics want more places to perform, but shows should exist because there's people out there who will want to see them...because people will want them so much that they'll be willing to pay for them.
And this change has to come soon, because pretty soon...when there really IS a wolf, the villagers won't listen to us...because we've cried "comedy show" too often.
pg--"I know several of the young comics you've been complaining about"??? I don't know if I've been complaining about any young comics, and certainly none in particular. I'm frustrated that there's the infrastructure in this city to celebrate a vibrant comedy scene...but we seem to be more awash in quantity than inspiring quality at the moment...and the embarrassment of stage time riches that the local scene enjoys is now contributing to the problem that will make it very difficult to improve things... But rest assured that I'm committed to advancing the futures of local comedy talent, as I have been for the past seven years...and I'd work with any comic who wants to do something awesome...something worth seeing.--seattle
PS--This conversation is getting further and further away from wondering what's happening to Giggles after Terry leaves. Perhaps we should either start a new thread...or move this to the "Fuck It" thread. I've long thought that conversations about the local scene are necessary to improve it--and, despite my strong opinions, I learn something from everyone's perspective, even if they don't agree with me. If there's interest in continuing to talk about the local scene, I'm up for it...but a thread move is probably a good idea.
We'll just take the fact that this was too long and that you didn't read it...as read.
Ha! I think you just answered my questions/concerns with this one statement. It does seem that Giggles was/is a fine example of an open-mic nights gone sour and I look forward to seeing what the future has in store for other local comedy-club work out opportunities. I'd like to stay optimistic since I am just getting into this. You pretty much swayed me on idea of keeping the comedy sausage making with the comedy clubs.
I'll take up any future ideas and questions about Seattle comedy in the "Fuck it" thread..but it was cool to hear out the relevance of Giggles and how it's history and downfall played it's part in the current state of affairs. Learned a lot.
Here's the thing about Giggles (to close this thread on its original track)...
In spite of all of the reasons why I stopped going there four years ago...I have a great deal of affection for the years that I spent there.
1) I got to work with so many of my favorite comedians there: Gaffigan, Birbiglia, Tosh, Giraldo, Behrendt, Johannsen, Mordal, Kahaney, etc. (And I got these opportunities very early in my comedy career because Terry knew I'd handle the host stuff, even if I wasn't really experienced enough as a comic at the time. Oh, and because I agreed to help seat people for free for the chance to host shows for free...but that's how it was.)
2) So many great comics would hang out and talk comedy. I remember very clearly how my friend Matt Schmidt (former boy wonder comic, now in Korea, but still doing comedy while he's there!) and I stayed at the club until 4:30am because Jim Gaffigan wanted to talk shop. Like we'd have anything better to do!
3) When I started there, Giggles had an awesome crew of veterans who were better at the "skin toughening" aspect of the Giggles comedy experience (and the debatable benefit that might come with that) than Terry was... You had to prove that you could handle yourself properly in the bar with the big boys, which was often more fun than anything happening in the show room. You had to know how to take a hit...and when you'd earned enough credit to zing back. They held court and when you felt welcomed by them, it was almost as good as walking off stage to applause you'd truly earned.
It was a palpable loss when that crew faded away (or was driven away.)
4) Working Giggles is different than working Comedy Underground...and learning how to work both rooms was important. Its easy to get dialed into your home club and then flounder when you go elsewhere. Despite both clubs being in the city, they worked very differently. Stuff that killed at the Underground didn't always work at Giggles...and there's a rambling-style that often gets learned at Giggles that doesn't work very well at the Underground. But little things...getting used to the different sightlines, how the room is lit, how you train your ears to what success or struggle sounds like from the stage...it was awesome to learn how to adjust to these differences right from the start.
5) The ability to stretch out a bit at open mic WAS a big draw, especially when the Underground started shrinking set lengths to accommodate so many new would-be comics. I'm not sure it was always as helpful (the need for a comedian to be efficient is a lesson worth learning) as it was enjoyed...but it was nice to have the chance to work on something longer than 3 minutes at a time.
That said, because the comics stay in the bar and little effort was made to promote the Giggles open mics...so much of that extra time was done in an absolutely dead room that was nearly empty. I remember more than once having to tell the performer on stage, blinded by the stage lighting, that the last audience member had left the room and they were performing to no one. On the rare occasions that an audience did actually show up for an open mic, the sets got tightened up and performers often got bumped or moved around to put the more experienced comics up when there were people there.
The Underground usually had a room full of people to see their shows--if for no other reason than because the performers would stay in the show room during the show.
The end result was that at the Underground, you could test a small chunk of material to see what people thought of it. At Giggles, you could work on a longer joke out loud...but you wouldn't always know if it was funny because you didn't get much response, positive or negative, from an audience.
(I understand that this may have changed in the years since I was going there...)
6) There were great poker games there.
7) My wife loved the Gin & Tonics that bartender Steve used to make for her there. (It almost made up for the nightmarish women's restroom, she said. Almost.)
8) Like the man in the Eddie Murphy joke, crawling through the desert, thinking a Saltine was a Ritz...in those moments where Terry was a decent person who gave occasional, if quiet, concern...it was awesome--and it made it harder to accept the frustration of all the times when it was bad.
9) Despite all of the comedians that Terry drove away with how he was or the things he did, he always had people worth watching who were willing to put up with it all (if only for a certain length of time.) I'd be so much poorer had I not gotten to know and work with people like Duane Goad, Tracey Tuffs, Bradley Lewis, Rick Kunkler, Chad Roberts, Drew Barth, Matt Schmidt, Andrew Sleighter, Jeff Dye, Andy Peters, Owen Straw, Brian Moote, Ryan Cuddihy, Matt Lauro, Louie Fox, CR Larsen, Jay Holzman and countless others over the years. (I admit, I don't know the current post-Moote/Dye era crowd as well as those from before then...)
10) And he did something that the Underground has mostly refused to do--push homegrown talent all the way up to top billing.
11) Oh, and the stories. Duane Goad piledriving Rick Kunkler into the tile! The Nick DiPaolo brawl. The Giraldo spitting incident. Jim Gaffigan asking me, ME?!?!, if he dares do his new chunk that's all about cake and hot pockets or if he should give the audience what he thinks they want--the manatee stuff--because that's "what they came for"... The shows Terry promoted in Olympia. The night we all went to Rick's after the show. The Tom Cotter "Where's the Wazoo?" night. Everybody's got Giggles stories and not all of them are about Terry messing with them.
Things will be different when Terry hands Giggles back to Bob. We'll see how it goes.
pg--And Princess Leia, too.--seattle
We'll just take the fact that this was too long and that you didn't read it...as read.
I'm a New York comic, but I grew up in Seattle and when I came back recently I stopped in to see a friend who was headlining at Giggles. Terry treated me like absolute crap.
I'm not claiming I deserve any special attention (because, I don't), but I was just stopping by to hang out and hopefully get a short guest spot and he made me never want to go back to his dirty ex-strip club of a room. All the other comics on the show vouched for me as I'd worked with them in the past and the headliner even offered to cut his time down for me, but Terry wouldn't budge and went out of his way to talk crap about me IN FRONT of me.
Congratulations Terry, you are making enemies left and right. Class act. Now go back to straightening your ill-placed headshots you bought on eBay with autographs to people you've never met.
Terry's posted on Facebook that his last day of owning Giggles is now April 25th.
He's welcoming everyone back.
All bans are lifted, except for two...and they know who they are.
pg--Previous commitments to the Bridgetown Comedy Festival mean I will miss this...but I am curious as to how it all ends...--heading to Portland as we speak
We'll just take the fact that this was too long and that you didn't read it...as read.
In response to ACOZ206:
Yeah, Terry's a real charmer. Pretty much the exact same thing happened to me at an open mic a couple weeks ago.
That was in reference to this statement:
Far as I can tell there are only about ~20ish comics organizing and performing at the bar shows and they're all relatively young. I think this was a little bit of a mutual misunderstanding about the intent of the statement though which has been since resolved.
The word on the street after Terry's last night at Giggles (which, sadly, I had to miss because I was performing at the Bridgetown Comedy Festival that night) was that Giggles would be closed until June for the transition to the new management.
Not so says the Giggles website (all spelling errors left intact):
Make of this what you will.
pg--Personally, I can't believe they're using HyperMart for webhosting...that's like having a Prodigy.com email address.--seattle
We'll just take the fact that this was too long and that you didn't read it...as read.
Rhonda Shear? I'll go to that.
or DON'T believe me!
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