Chicago comedy advice

[dan telfer]

Since I took over producing Chicago Underground Comedy, I get emails every day from people who want advice on doing stand-up in town. So I thought I would post a thread here specifically dedicated to it, just so I have something I can link folks and because I think AST is a place comedy fans would like to end up.

First of all, as many ASTers will tell you, some of the best general stand-up advice out there is on Paul F. Tompkins' MySpace page. Read it now! It's in the right margin in his "About Me" field. Commit it to memory- advice doesn't get better than that, and the man hates advice!

Now, I don't think classes help, but that's me. I have often wanted to teach a class on stand-up because of my fiction and playwrighting background. But any club offering classes? Better you take an improv comedy or acting class. I say the real way to learn stand-up is watch a lot and go to a lot of open mics.

Go up before you're ready. Fail. Learn. If you "wait until you are ready" you will never go up, and you will die and that will be it.

Go to open mics. Get on stage. Sit through rough sets and stand through rough crowds. Lose your nerve. Nothing is an indicator you shouldn't do it. You'll be great. Not great? Get back onstage. Do something that challenges you. Do something that makes you focus on your material. Do something the audience wants to see. But don't sit offstage pondering what goes wrong. Get back onstage and do something else.

Chicago is fortunate that it has lots of open mics and lots of showcases, and only one true comedy club. There's a few places that use the word "club", but that's to draw an audience. They're really renting someone else's space and are an alt room whether they like it or not. Just know that where-ever you want to perform it is never your right to end up there, and the person running the showcase does not ever owe you a slot. I run a pretty popular showcase and wish I could just show up and be myself, a comic, and hang out with the other comics. Sadly, I usually spend a good deal of time making small talk with someone who thinks they deserve a slot at my show and doesn't understand why I won't book them on the spot. You want to be good? Take the Steve Martin-ism to heart: "Be so good they can't ignore you." Kill at so many open mics that, even if a booker doesn't notice word gets out and people tell the booker "hey, you need to book this dude!" It happens, it truly does. And it's such a wonderful way to build a reputation as opposed to hounding comics who run rooms but want to be thought of as fellow performers, not producers.

UCB has really opened itself up to standup in New York and LA. Nothing like it here in Chicago, where the improv theaters all look down their nose at stand-up (unless of course you're famous and once took their improv classes). There's a great showcase in LA which has a lot of amazing comics in it called Comedy Death Ray and it has an awesome CD out. Get that CD, iTunes or otherwise. It's got some of the sharpest people out there on it, tons of near complete sets from a wide variety of people. And pay attention- they're doing a show that is probably one of their favorites to do, and they're not doing one hour sets. They're doing 15 minutes just like you at your first showcase. Don't look at crazy long sets like they're the rockstar experience at the end of the tunnel. Take every opportunity you have as a chance to destroy. Rock the fuck out of small cafes with 4 people in it. I'm not saying be crazy and loud and wacky- don't be an imbecile. I'm saying rock THAT ROOM. How can you connect to those four people without skipping a beat? What can be done? Find out, and you will rarely fail.

And see shows. They are usually dirt cheap and the person running the show will like you a lot more when you introduce yourself if you paid his door fee.

But back to Paul F. Tompkins' advice on his MySpace... Advice is stupid. Who the fuck am I? You can't do things that I did. I did them already. You going out there and finding yourself and your own brand of confidence is more valuable than anything another comedian can "give" you. So just go out. All the time. And find out what it is you want to be doing by just doing something and keeping the good parts.

[Ritter]

Great thread and suggestions Dan! I'm going to go out on a limb and add my two cents from a booker's perspective...

I get a ton of emails from people who want to perform at the Lakeshore and the gosh honest truth is I simply don't have enough time in the day to look at every YouTube clip sent my way. Even if I did, they don't do that much for me or influence my interest in a particular comic. Call me an old-school "analog" guy, but I really need to see somebody live to get a true sense of what they can do. I need to feel how the audience reacts to them and vise-versa.

I don't want to hear YOU tell me you're funny, I want to hear SOMEBODY ELSE tell me you're funny. You cannot sell me on your act by emailing me over and over and over and over again and telling me how funny you are and what a perfect match you are to open for Doug Stanhope next time he's in town. I'm looking for talented comics, not talented self-promoters. It's a tough double-bind, I know, but Dan's advice about building a reputation is spot on.

Translation of the above - I far prefer an email saying "Hey Ritter, if you're available, I'd love for you to come see me at the ______ open mic next Friday" as opposed to "I'm a great comic and you should book me". The first will get me to open my calendar, the second will make me hit my delete button. If you're a great comic (or destined to be a great comic), I expect you're working, working, working.

If I come see you and you have a bad night, that's not a bad thing. Comedy's hard - I know that. There's good nights and bad nights. Sometimes I'd almost prefer to see somebody struggle with a tough room then simply kill with a good drunk crowd because it gives me a better sense of who they are and where they are in their development.

If I don't book you on the spot (I probably won't), don't stop working. I've had the privilege over the last couple years to watch some of my favorite comics grow in their work and find their voices. Nothing gets me off more than watching someone get better. Just because I don't have a spot for you NOW doesn't mean I haven't logged you in my brain and am looking for spots in the future. Comics are like wine in that they get better with age. There's a lot of comics I put in my cerebral "cellar" with a mind to bring to the stage when they're ready.

Understand that I don't have that many spots available. While we do a lot of shows with National headliners, many times these guys carry their own openers with them on the road - or they have contractual approval of who opens for them. Within the next couple months, Lakeshore will be producing both a weekly open mic and a weekly showcase show that will provide me with more opportunities to offer people.

Find your OWN voice. Don't give up. Write what YOU think is funny, not what you think somebody else will find funny. Don't pander. Keep working. Learn something from every failure. Remember it's 10 years to an overnight success.

There's probably more, but I need more coffee...

Cheers,

Ritter

[Joe McAdam]

Thanks a lot to both of you guys, I'm sure I've made mistakes you've mentioned and not realized it. I think the advice coming from a booker/producer POV is really valuable. That's the kind of advice you don't normally hear, whereas people are usually all too ready to tell you what to do with your act.

Also, I can't wait for the Lakeshore open mic/showcase.

And, a question for Dan: How long have you been doing stand up? How long did it take to go from green open mic'r to where you are now?

[dan telfer]

I have only been doing stand-up for about a year and a half.

But, before that, I was an improv comedian, stage actor, playwright, and solo performer (one man shows) for 12 years. So I don't think my path is a good one to model yourself after!

When I finally got the nerve to do stand-up I did material I'd been obsessing over for a while. Plus I had that writing and performing experience. So at my first open mic I got booked for a few showcases, and so I was doing showcases and open mics simultaneously pretty much from the moment I started. It sounds like I'm bragging, but again, I don't think it's a replicable experience so I'm not really. I paid other kinds of dues for a long time, and I've been doing live game shows and variety shows with stand-up comics for years. So I had the luxury of being a green open mic'er that a lot of people recognized, for better or worse. I still go to Schubas' open mic whenever I can to screw around and try new material. This town is so great for open mics, people of any skill level should be taking advantage of the stage time and finding at least one to haunt regularly.

The only thing I can really relate from my story that might be useful to a green open mic'er, particularly in Chicago, is this:

1) Once you have 5-10 minutes, do you have the means to go on the road to clubs and showcases in the surrounding four state area? If so, go. Hone your material. You will be amazed at what works for some crowds and doesn't for others, and you will hone your comedic voice.

2) You don't have the means to go on the road? Then you have to work twice as hard and do at least 2-3 open mics a week for as long as you can stand it. And here's the catch- people will get sick of your material FAST. Build up as much material as you can. Find some kind of system where you can hone jokes without making the same crowds sick of them. Take them to other rooms before repeating them somewhere. Before I started this was suggested to me, and I am very grateful I stuck to it. Maybe you won't need that much material, but because I get sick of my "B" material so fast it's great to get into the habit of churning stuff out and only keeping the good. Plus, I see a lot of comics who are hilarious but the crowds have heard their material a thousand times. There's a couple people in Chicago right now, in fact, who are about to explode into fame. Traditional clubs and TV producers and magazines love them. But! They do the same 5-8 minutes in the same rooms all over Chicago, so crowds of comedy nerds think they're a snooze. It's a bummer.

If you're not already, subscribe to Never Not Funny Primo and the Comedy and Everything Else podcasts. Not only are they highly entertaining on a silly recreational level, but they occaisonally have mind-blowing advice from comics along the lines of what PFT says on his MySpace, except with their own twist. In the last month Greg Behrendt and Doug Benson have dished out a lot of stuff that inspired me to write these posts. More of that "beat your own path" sort of thing, but hearing new points of view always hammers the points home.

[Ritter]

As an asterisk to Dan's comment about people getting sick of material FAST, I would add that, for me, that's only true if the material is stagnant and you're not working on it.

For example, last week, I saw one of my favorite local comics do a bit on Tuesday night's ChUC that fell kind of flat. On Friday, I saw him do the same bit, but he'd worked on it and made it better. THAT'S exciting to me and what the whole purpose of the "open mic/showcase/any opening slot you can find" strategy. If I see you do a bit one night and then the same bit a week or a month later with no changes - that's when you'll start to lose my interest.

Moral of the story: Don't dump a bit at open mics or showcases until it's really really good. Then bring your solid, established stuff out when you're getting paid to perform.

Just my opinion.

[dan telfer]

So true.

And there are very few paid opportunities in Chicago, so get used to loving your time at showcases and open mics.

That said, Seinfeld had a line in Comedian that sticks with me about a joke he's been reworking for years that still isn't working. He loves it, and is convinced it's funny, but no matter how he spins it he can't get the response he's looking for.

I'd argue that such a thing can happen to anyone, and after a few re-workings it can be time to put your pets to sleep.

But yes- when I say "hone", that's exactly what I'm talking about.

[dan telfer]

One last thing, and I might be spent on this topic. There's only so many ways to say "get out there":

Because there is no industry here, you simply must enjoy your time onstage and ditch any dreams of grandeur. Have goals sure, but don't forget to enjoy your time onstage first.

Part of what I think made me comment on crowds getting sick of seeing the same material- sometimes they don't. I have seen Hannibal Buress do some jokes dozens of times and they still destroy me. What happens is what Ritter hinted at- going stagnant.

It happens on many levels, not just you not honing your bits. You have to love doing your material on some level, or people smell the stagnancy. There's a thing that happens to stagnant comics, usually immensely talented, because they can't make a living at it easily in Chicago. They get a vague sort of arrogance. A "this is my good stuff, people are supposed to laugh" attitude. Once when I was at IO I was within earshot of an awesome writer and improviser named Rich Talarico and he said:

"I heard somewhere laughter is the sound of surprise".

Well it would be nice if that wasn't an anonymous, third-hand quote but it sticks with me. No matter how clever you are, it might not be funny to watch you turn your gears onstage. You have to find a way to sneak into the back door of people's brains. You can do that with material they've heard before! Especially if you've reworked it. But you will become a sad parody of yourself fast if you don't take the performance element seriously and deliver the joke in a way that might surprise anyone.

[Cameron]

I just want to show my appreciation for this thread.

I obviously don't live in Chicago, but most of it is still completely relevant to me.

I've barely been doing open mics a month and really really love it. But it's hard here in Oklahoma. There are two weekly open mics and one of them I can't get into because I'm not 21. I'm dying to get on stage more than once a week and completely realize it really isn't enough, but I'm making do with it for now.

I'm going to start trying to take road trips to like Dallas, Little Rock or wherever else to try to perform for some different crowds.

[Daryl]

One helpful thing that I've learned so far (I've only been doing open mics for about a year) is that a joke needs to work a certain number of times before you know whether you have a good piece of material. A lot of comedians have told me to try the same joke out at least three times at different places and if it works every time you do it, then you have something. I think smaller rooms can give you a really stilted perspective, especially if a lot of comedians are present instead of audience members.

[Dave Odd]

"There's a few places that use the word "club", but that's to draw an audience. They're really renting someone else's space and are an alt room whether they like it or not."

I feel like that statement is specifically referring to my venue The Edge Comedy Club at The Chicago Center for the Performing Arts. First off, there is another full time comedy club in Chicago besides mine and Zanies called Jokes and Notes on the south side, but I guess if you don't count black owned clubs as legitimate businesses in their own space then only Zanies counts. But then again they may be leasing the space and not actually own the building, therefor invalidating them as a real comedy club.

I've run an open mic and comedy class out of the Chicago Center for the Performing Arts for over a year, and have been doing showcases there 3 nights a week since September of last year. I have had Greg Fitzsimmons, Steve Hofstetter, Tom Simmons, and a number of other national comedy acts perform there not to mention HUNDREDS of other national and local comics. If that isn't a comedy club, then I don't know what is. To say that because a room (that runs 4 nights a week mind you) isn't a legitimate comedy club because the proprietor is renting the space and doesn't own the building is ridiculous. In that case Zanies in Vernon Hills isn't a real club because it leases space in a strip mall, and the Zanies in St. Charles isn't a real club because it leases space in a hotel, and the Improv in Schaumburg isn't a real club because it is in a mall, and Comedy Sportz wasn't a club for two years because they were in the same venue I am running The Edge out of now, come to think of it 90% of all businesses that exist aren't legitimate because they are renting property from someone.

If you want to be a comic and get good, go up at every open mic you can find, even go up 2-3-4 times a night like a lot of guys do in this scene. Hannibal still gets out to every open mic and sometimes goes up 4 times in a night. Don't only go to places you feel comfortable or are familiar with, don't even go to juts stand-up open mics, go to poetry open mics, music open mics, even karaoke nights. Once you can muster laughs anywhere, you have truly mastered the craft. I have a New Faces showcase I run every Thursday specifically set aside to showcase new comics and give them a longer set. Once you feel you have a solid 8-10 minutes, email me (edgecomedy@hotmail.com) or stop by some Wednesday for the open mic, because unlike a lot of comedy bookers I actively search for talent, and very rarely do people ever have to chase me down for a booked spot if they deserve one, because I ask them first.

www.theedgecomedyclub.com

[dan telfer]

The level you were willing to take me literally is pretty hilarious. Yes, I used some generalizations. The fact that you'd come right out and call me a racist was a real treat. I honestly don't know anything about Jokes and Notes and so left it out so as not to act like I knew what I was talking about.

As for the other stuff, wasn't really thinking about you Dave.

[bryan_champ]

This is a really good thread filled with great information. Let's keep the focus on advice to help Chicago comedians, and please keep all insults and pot shots (oblique and otherwise) off this thread.

If anybody wants to find out more information about getting booked at Jokes and Notes then send owner Mary Lindsey an e-mail: jokesandnotes@hotmail.com

I wish I had some Chicago comedy advice to add that has not already been said but I got a whole fresh batch of nothing.

Dan Telfer, Ritter, and Dave Odd, I appreciate the information you have shared as bookers and producers. Thanks.

Now, let's keep going in the comedy advice direction with this topic.