Sobriety.

[scamboogah]

Do you go to vegan restaurants and talk about how great meat is?

This analogy is flawed. If you knew a Vegan and they told you they slipped and ate chicken last night, would you think of that as a huge, addiction-to-meat caused set back for that person, or a choice they made that they now regret? Suave was just saying that, for some, it's not all or nothing. I think it can actually be more supportive to have a realistic discussion rather than just have this thread be an echo-chamber of 'atta-boy's and 'sorry-to-hear-that's. There's room for nuance in this discussion, which is something you'll never hear at an AA meeting (which I HAVE attended with a friend before).

[Berliner]

So, under your exmaple, it's even ruder to do it to people trying to get sober, right? Since there's something even bigger at stake? Or am I missing something?

I don't want to start making this about something else, but come on.

[crlygrl]

I agree with scammy. And also, I don't think it's right to jump on sneeb like he's causing Tim harm with his words. It's his opinion, wrong or right, and while you can disagree with him I don't think it's right to tell him this isn't the place for it. It's a discussion. Why does he have to be trying to sway someone in one direction or another?

[TimBuktu]

/

[Berliner]

I agree with scammy. And also, I don't think it's right to jump on sneeb like he's causing Tim harm with his words. It's his opinion, wrong or right, and while you can disagree with him I don't think it's right to tell him this isn't the place for it. It's a discussion. Why does he have to be trying to sway someone in one direction or another?

My point is, why does this discussion have to take place in a thread about sobriety? With people who really don't need to hear that one or two won't kill you? I honestly think that yes, these words are in fact harmful here. There's a million ways and a million places where it's fine to have this conversation. I don't think it's appropriate here, but whatever.

[suavepebble]

I'm not even going to look at what I was saying last night, haha. Oy vey.

I apologize for rattling the cage in here and I hope I didn't mortally offend anyone.

I meant well in my drunken stupor, I'll say that much... but yeah, it all went to shit.

[StrangeLight]

in future, maybe don't post in a thread where someone's trying to get support for being sober while you're in a drunken stupor. it's not all about you.

[scamboogah]

You understand how being drunk works, don't you?

[TimBuktu]

/

[Adult Ed]

Having gotten that out of my system, and having seen TimBuktu's post, I think I'll just throw this one down the memory hole.

[J.W.Crazy]

You might try looking into Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. It's mostly associated with anxiety, depression, and OCD but has been shown to be highly effective with drug and alcohol addiction especially when combined with other treatments like group therapy. Maria Bamford has talked a little about how it helped her, I think on WTF, maybe if you hear about her positive experience with it you'll be motivated to give it a try.

Whatever the case I hope you find something that works for you.

[Bronan]

Suave sent me a nice PM. All is well. I really do want to stress again that AA is really a good thing, even if you're an atheist. It has some hokey shit, and it has some Jesus freaks, but there are also people just like me who just need help and someone to help them navigate sobriety. I would be really happy if people who were on the fence gave meetings a chance. I don't like the aspersions being cast in this thread. AA helps people. If you don't like the meeting you go to, try another one. One of them will work for you.

For what it's worth, sorry for being so dismissive. I understand that it's definitely helpful and a ton of people are doing well with it. I think I need to keep going to different ones until I find one that clicks. Went on a bender yesterday under the guise of "work stress", ended up getting into an argument with the woman and totally shitting up our last night together before she leaves town for two weeks.

[mattmanser]

Just wanted to add that a close family member has been in AA for a long time, helping him stay sober for over 25 years. So I know that AA can work. Best of luck, Timbuktu!

[TimBuktu]

/

[c.Bacon]

I just saw this thread last night, finished reading it this morning, and now here's me...

Great thread. So nice to see the support for Tim. I'm no expert but I have my experience and know what's worked for me. I'm 30 and got sober in 2007. It's been a long time without any mind altering chemicals but my life is so much better for it. It's nice that I can look back at the last three years and eight months and see that basically all areas of my life have improved.

I know some people are hard drinkers and some people are alcoholics, and I'm the latter. I didn't know I was an alcoholic when my shit hit the fan but I learned pretty quickly and I've had a lot of help since. When it comes to what other people should do I don't know but if anyone wants to PM me, I'm happy to share more of my experience.

[Americas Team]

I'll echo Matt and Tim's statements about AA and throw in a little support for Al-Anon. I have a lot of addicts and enablers in my family. Both these organizations have really helped.

I kind of blame the US Justice system for the way both these organizations are talked about. The punishment for a lot of alcohol related crimes include going to AA or similar meetings. The person goes in the wrong state of mind. I've known a few people in this situation and they just think everyone is whining or being preach or whatever. They have not hit rock bottom. They don't have the perspective.

[TimBuktu]

/

[MikThrontveit]

Hadn't seen this thread before and I wanted to add my words of encouragement. I think one thing that some people who aren't from Minnesota or North Dakota (currently - college MN) might not realize is that drinking is such a huge part of pretty much everything social. I'm going to the Twins game means I'm going to sit and drink before during and after the Twins game and hopefully have my capacity to get a cab home. The Lakes, Camping, Fishing, concerts, plays, sometimes movies and every friend that comes into town... straight to the bar. It's a rough place to try and quit. I've had friends who have quit (not many) but some and I enjoy hanging out with them where it's kind of the point to stay sober. It's awkward at first, because I only know how to hang out with them while drinking, but then that shit just goes away if you actually enjoy a person. You actually enjoy watching baseball or football or basketball sober, because you actually follow the game for once. I never drink at football games anymore because I can't stand the drunken football fan stereotype.

Anyway, it takes a lot of balls to try in quit in a culture that pounds it down your throat at every turn. You can do it though.

Oh yeah shit, I forgot... I wanted to say. I've had to sit in on AA meetings for a job I use to do and the thing (other than the higher power thing) that always seemed off is... sometimes the leader or (in my case) the CD counselor would "confront" people and tell them they're not going to be successful at being sober, because they haven't hit rock bottom. I just thought it was a shitty strategy to say someone hasn't fallen far enough when they've already called mercy. So if you ever encounter that bullshit, please just think it's bullshit.

[TimBuktu]

/

[SeanX3]

Thought this was very interesting read from Ebert today...

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2009...im_an_alc.html