Politics!

[NFox]

I think the basic point is that you should grant your opponents a certain measure of respect. I think that includes referring to them by what they believe they are for than by what you believe they are against.

Agree or disagree, you have to at least acknowledge that the pro-life movement is sincere in its attempt to preserve life, as it defines the concept.

That has to be one of the smartest things written in this entire thread. I think it is an important lesson to remember not just as it applies to abortion, but also as it applies to politics in general. Define your position and defend it, don't try to build your own position up by breaking down and redefining others. It is that mentality that has lend to the unbearable amount of mudslinging that constitutes a modern political campaign.

-Nick

[ProfessorShutYoMouth]

Define your position and defend it, don't try to build your own position up by breaking down and redefining others. It is that mentality that has lend to the unbearable amount of mudslinging that constitutes a modern political campaign.

-Nick

That's what I find remarkable about the McCain campaign - he has yet to consistently articulate what he is going to do while in office. All we see in the media from Republican operatives are attacks on Obama, and very little in the way of what McCain will be doing to clean up George Bush's mess.

I think McCain is too restricted by Bush operatives to really take him on and say "I know Bush was a failure and I am going to do something about it." Palin seems a bit more of a wild card and she has a history of taking on corrupt Republicans so we'll see if she goes that route or if she simply attacks Obama and Biden.

[Embiggen]

You have to admit, she's pretty damn cute. And never underestimate the voting power of nerds with naughty librarian fetishes.



I think Sas is right, though -- the very fact that McCain is letting Obama's campaign dictate the tack of his means he's already on his heels. Hopefully this mean's Obama's got it in the bag, and we can just relax and enjoy all the great political comedy that the next two months will bring.

[andrearunge]

Who wouldn't want to buy a condo from her?

[Hated Milk Machine]

Who wouldn't want to buy a condo from her?

haha this makes me laugh!

[JPSpaulding]

I'm just glad to see Hockey moms finally getting their day in the sun...

[yumitree]

I'm just glad to see Hockey moms finally getting their day in the sun...

i wonder if she's only going to get coverage on the versus network.

[JPSpaulding]

i wonder if she's only going to get coverage on the versus network.

To and Shay sir

I heard she does have a BA broadcasting and did some utility work for a news program in the sports department so she's officially more qualified then any one running the versus network

[Embiggen]

Why is Palin a hero for carrying her baby with Down Syndrome to term? She had that baby when she was what, 44? Wouldn't her age be the main reason why it has Down Syndrome in the first place?

[ChrisCubasATX]

Agree or disagree, you have to at least acknowledge that the pro-life movement is sincere in its attempt to preserve life, as it defines the concept.

Are they really though? I mean many of them, if not most, oppose abortion even when it is being performed to save the mothers life. Throw in their pro-death penalty and pro-war stances and at BEST they are pretty selective.

Now the Catholic church on the other hand... Those motherfuckers are pro-life. They are vocally opposed to anything that ends a life. (At least now, we'll ignore their silence during the slave trade and the holocaust.)

[rabbitandox]

Why is Palin a hero for carrying her baby with Down Syndrome to term? She had that baby when she was what, 44? Wouldn't her age be the main reason why it has Down Syndrome in the first place?

Usually that decision indicates a level of liberal thought, in that the parents refuse to buy into the stigma attached to Down Syndrome and are willing to grant a level of dignity to all persons, regardless of number of chromosomes.

But in Palin's case, it's also an advertisement of her feelings on abortion. It tells the staunch pro-lifers that even in a case where abortion was more easily justifiable, she decided against it.

So she's either a good liberal or a good evangelical (or both?). I can't tell yet.

[ericluxury]

You have to admit, she's pretty damn cute. And never underestimate the voting power of nerds with naughty librarian fetishes.

This will be my most piggish post, but what are you talking about Embig?

You'd think a country that this is not the same country that tsk-tsks Jennifer Love Hewitt for gaining 10 pounds over the course of 8 years.

compare:
vs.

Hillary is as pretty as Palin. And I don't say this as one of those people who thinks Hillary was ugly (thankfully there was less of that analysis this primary season than in previous years). I say it only as, get over it people.

Think about Palin vs. the average 44-year old lady and then think about Obama vs. the average 47-year old man. Obama is way handsomer than Palin is pretty.

[Famous Police Dog]

Why aren't we talking about the issues!

We should be talking about the issues!

[Embiggen]

Usually that decision indicates a level of liberal thought, in that the parents refuse to buy into the stigma attached to Down Syndrome and are willing to grant a level of dignity to all persons, regardless of number of chromosomes.

But in Palin's case, it's also an advertisement of her feelings on abortion. It tells the staunch pro-lifers that even in a case where abortion was more easily justifiable, she decided against it.

So she's either a good liberal or a good evangelical (or both?). I can't tell yet.

I think you're missing my point. Her decision to have a baby at 44 caused the Down syndrome in the first place. You can't cause the problem and then be a hero for dealing with it. I wasn't really addressing the abortion part of it as much as the bad decision-making to have a fifth baby at age 44.

[Embiggen]

...and this is more fun than talking about issues. Let's talk about McCain's first wife!

[Jenny]

I think the basic point is that you should grant your opponents a certain measure of respect. I think that includes referring to them by what they believe they are for than by what you believe they are against.

Agree or disagree, you have to at least acknowledge that the pro-life movement is sincere in its attempt to preserve life, as it defines the concept.

No, no it isn't always: see Marty Malt's response and the fact that there have been murders of abortion doctors and bomb threats against clinics. I don't care about measures of respect: I want freedom of reproduction choice and I just don't think McCaine can grant that.

[funnyclown]

I don't think it will drive away his base. Apparently Palin declined to abort her child after it was discovered that it had Down's Syndrome. She is very Christian so it could help get the conservative Christians who vote on faith. Thats not McCain's base so much as the base of the Republicans in general. She's also got a reformer image who fought against Republican who were corrupt. And she can maybe get the people who just want a lady in office.

All of that really depends on her political skill and charisma. McCain doesn't even know if she is charismatic on a large scale. If she is a Quayle type choice, then it will appear to be a desperation pick.

Either way though it was a smart choice to have a surprise choice after Obama gave such a speech last night.

I think I agree with just about all of this. If the pick had been Romney or Ridge, no one would be talking about it now. I also imagine she's more substantive than I'd like to assume. Still, this seems like a desperate pander to me, an effort to both draw in the Hillary fans and make McCain's campaign an historic one. The problem is I don't believe many Hillary supporters feel good about this. I would imagine more of them are insulted than excited right now. I also agree with people who say that this deflates the Obama is too inexperienced argument. Resume-wise, Palin is a major lightweight. Unless she's an amazingly confidence-inspiring speaker, people are not going to be comfortable having her waiting in line behind a pallid 72-year-old with a history of cancer. On top of that, she's inextricably tied in to the oil industry. I think this was the kind of pick McCain had to make, but it makes me feel a little less nervous about November than I did a week ago.

[isoS]

I think you're missing my point. Her decision to have a baby at 44 caused the Down syndrome in the first place. You can't cause the problem and then be a hero for dealing with it. I wasn't really addressing the abortion part of it as much as the bad decision-making to have a fifth baby at age 44.

That's a pretty extreme argument. Yes, having a baby past 35 increases the risk of Down Syndrome and other defects/complications, but that's like saying driving a car increases your risk of getting in an accident, so it's irresponsible to drive. Having a baby at 44 isn't all that crazy or unusual, and if you support the right for a woman to choose to abort a pregnancy, you should support the right for a woman to choose to intiate one at whatever age she wants. She's not a hero for having the baby, but she's not a villain for conceiving it either.

It could be moot, though, as my gossip-mongering wife just told me the baby might actually be Palin's teen daughter's (Gasp!).

Yeah, shit just got real soapy up in this election.

[Embiggen]

That's a pretty extreme argument. Yes, having a baby past 35 increases the risk of Down Syndrome and other defects/complications, but that's like saying driving a car increases your risk of getting in an accident, so it's irresponsible to drive. Having a baby at 44 isn't all that crazy or unusual, and if you support the right for a woman to choose to abort a pregnancy, you should support the right for a woman to choose to intiate one at whatever age she wants. She's not a hero for having the baby, but she's not a villain for conceiving it either.

It could be moot, though, as my gossip-mongering wife just told me the baby might actually be Palin's teen daughter's (Gasp!).

Yeah, shit just got real soapy up in this election.

Well, can we at least agree she's a villain for naming him Trig Paxson Van Palin?

Also, that's some great gossip. Regardless of whether it's true, it's too bad the left doesn't have a misinformation machine it can churn that little tidbit through a la the right's "Obama is a muslim" thing.

[rabbitandox]

I think you're missing my point. Her decision to have a baby at 44 caused the Down syndrome in the first place. You can't cause the problem and then be a hero for dealing with it. I wasn't really addressing the abortion part of it as much as the bad decision-making to have a fifth baby at age 44.

Well part of my point was that "problem" is not a good way to refer to a person, so I wouldn't necessarily accuse Palin of bad decision-making. As long as the means to care for the kid are available, I would think that the decision to keep/make a kid with Down Syndrome is a decision worthy of respect for the same reason that a vegetarian or a slave-owner who frees her slaves is worthy of respect: it's a decision that rejects social norms to more liberally extend the right to dignity and happiness. (Unless, as I said before, her decision was based more on a certain misreading of the Bible.)