ILIS Interviews Louis C.K.

[Itslikeimsayin]

Louis C.K. appears at The Coach House in San Juan Capistrano tonight, followed by a show at the new Largo at the Coronet on Sunday. It’s all part of a new tour working toward his next special, “Louis C.K. Hilarious.”

His last tour resulted in “Chewed Up,” an hour special premiering on Showtime on Saturday, October 4 at 11:00 pm.

Prior to his arrival in Southern California, I was able to conduct an email interview with him about his dedication to creating new material, his maturation as a comic and much more.

[READ ON]

[Itslikeimsayin]

You recently wrote about influence of Carlin's work ethic and the regularity with which he developed new specials. Was he your primary influence in your new approach or who else inspired this newfound work ethic that has you so committed to developing new material and a special every year or so?

A big thing about George Carlin that I had always admired was that he did so many specials throughout his career and that his voice kept evolving, and that it stayed honest and unique. A LOT of comics, in fact most, that become famous and thus need to put out a lot of material, cut to the marrow very quickly, sap it, and start hiring writers and putting out shit that sounds like a hollow version of what they were. George didn't do that. I also remembered this about Bill Cosby, who has an absolute stack of comedy albums, all gold (I mean good, not lucrative, though I'm sure they were). Same with Pryor.

Through the first eighteen years or so of my career, I felt like the evolution and growth of my act was glacial. I thought I would NEVER write even one great hour of standup, let alone a shitload of them.

Then around 2004, I started writing more autobiographically and I would say more honestly and less joke-i-ly, and started to really change my act and my approach to generating material, what part of my brain it was coming from and why I was doing it.
Then I did a One Night Stand half hour special for HBO in 2005, which was all the material I had been doing for the past two years. I actually wanted to stretch that into an hour, hoping that HBO would upgrade the special. I even threw in some old bits to round it off. I hit 49 minutes. Not enough for an hour. But it really excited me. It made me think I could start over again and write a whole hour from scratch.

Lucky Louie wrapped in March of 2006 and we weren't going on the air till June and we knew we wouldn't get a pickup (if we did, which we didn't) until September or so. So I had a lot of months ahead of me of just waiting to see what kind of future I had. We were also writing additional scripts of Lucky Louie for a new season that didn't happen, but that didn't take all my time. I decided that I would spend the year dedicating my time to building a brand new hour from the ground up. I figured that if it was ready by September, then if I got another season of Lucky Louie, (I didn't) I could shoot that hour and then go back to work. I also figured that if we got cancelled (we did) I would really need something else ready so that I wouldn't die of depression and poverty.

So I hit the clubs hard, recorded every set I did, and started building the time. It was REALLY hard. I didn't know that it was possible for me. Then I listened to a CD called "George on George" where he talked about his work ethic and how, rather than just compiling material in general and shooting the best of what he has at the end of the year, he spent the year developing material specifically for the special. In other words, thinking of it as writing one special, like a novel. If you write a novel, it has a form, a theme, a story, whatever, and you know you're writing that novel the whole time, and when it's ready you publish it and move on. Rather than just writing "things" and then when there's enough of it you put it out.

This approach totally changed how I thought about my task. I wouldn't say that I made a theme for the special. I like doing specials with a wide range of topics within them. But I always had in my mind that I was trying to create as dense, funny and interesting and unique and honest of an hour special as I could. I would do things to challenge myself, like I would open shows with my strongest material, my closing material, so that I'd then have 40 minutes to go, knowing I didn't have a good closer, which forced me to make the remaining material stronger. Things like that.

I would say also that Chris Rock was an inspiration in this way. He's my friend and has always been generous about telling me ways to up your game and stay sharp. He told me "Get out of your element. Out of your comfort zone." Which I did. Rather than going to clubs that I always know I am welcome – San Fran, Minneapolis – I worked a LOT of clubs in that year, in towns I had never worked in – Charlotte, NC, Cincinnati – which forced me to prove the set to many kinds of people, not just people like me who already liked me. Chris also told me to be conscious of how I was moving on stage and where I was looking. If you watch Chris' specials, his eyes never go below a certain level. He NEVER breaks his connection to the audience and stays ALIVE between the bits, rather than looking at the floor, hand on mic stand cradle, going "Ummm... so anyways.... yeah, what else" which is a cancer that every comic has and needs to get rid of.

This is more than you asked about. I'm in my house and I had too much coffee. To wrap it up, that September, HBO said no more Lucky Louie. I already had the hour ready. Amazingly, they bought it from me. I love HBO. Seriously. I shot it two months later. It's called "Shameless." As soon as it was over, I only wanted to go and do it again. So I did. It's called "Chewed Up." I am now performing the third hour, "Hilarious" on the road and I'll shoot it as a special in the spring.



How difficult has it been to respond to your own mandate to constantly create new material under this format?

It's horribly hard and it keeps me alive. It's the greatest thing ever. It puts a huge amount of pressure on me. I used to hate pressure. Then one day I was watching a documentary about Billy Jean King. She was being interviewed about an upcoming match and she said "Sure it's a lot of pressure. But that's great. I love pressure." She smiled when she said it. Not because she was joking, but because she really does love pressure. What an amazing person. I decided to be like her and learn to love pressure. And now I do.



Is it a matter of becoming less picky and more adventurous about a bit before you try it or just an entirely new way of looking at your career?

I'm more picky. Actually the way I look at material is kind of reversed. Often when I write a bit that kills easily out of the gate, I end up looking closely at it and realizing that it's meaningless and not really me, so I toss it. Then there are bits that are REALLY uncomfortable or awkward and they're dying but I am just SURE they will work. So I just keep hammering those till they do. Sometimes the easy dumb bits end up being sort of scrapped like a car in a chop shop and used in the more awkward ones, to make them work.



The new special is on Showtime. Does that hinder your ability to ever go back to HBO or what was involved in the shift away from HBO?

I don't think it matters much. There are many comics that have done specials for many different networks.

In the two years between 2005 and 2007, HBO gave me the following: Thirteen episodes of my own sitcom starring and created by me. One half hour special, an hour special and a huge spot on Comic Relief. Oh, also a pilot presentation deal which is now many clips on YouTube. So that's a lot in a short time. When I came across with Chewed Up, I think it was just a little too soon for them. If I had waited, they probably would have bought it, but I didn't want to, so we went to Showtime, which I think is fun because they have many new shows and are growing. Also Comedy Central bought it in conjunction with them so we will probably get a really strong run on their network after it's been on Showtime in its pure form for a while.



I've noticed over the years that there are some topics where you once had a joke, but later you've tackled the same topic but leading to a different joke. There's been some discussion lately on AST about this type of thing, and somewhere I heard Paul F. Tompkins talking about how he's amazed at Brian Regan's ability to work every conceivable angle on a topic. Do you see a similar progression in your work, where you're able to get more out of a bit than you were when you were younger?

That's definitely true and that's something I learned from watching Chris Rock. I think he is the absolute best at this. It's like you take a premise and put it on the pavement in front of you and you start whacking it with a bat, then a chain, then a rubber hammer. Denting it in every possible side, turning it over, hitting it again. Like what they did to Jesus. Just having fun. Chris never lets go of a premise till it's really done.

I have actually recently brought back a couple of premises that I did way back when I was younger, like fifteen years ago; one is even twenty years old and they're back in my act because I am writing them much, much better now and taking more advantage of them.



How else has your breadth of experience changed the way you approach joke writing?

Not to give up on a joke. How to condense jokes, how to expand others. Sometimes a joke feels weak and you get agitated and run past it in fear, but if you do that same joke with confidence and stand there and wait, a laugh will come and swell. Lots of things. Millions of them.



One of your strengths – I'd say you do it better than anyone – is keeping a very conversational, off-the-cuff tone on stage. That said, I get the feeling that once you hone a joke, the exact wording becomes very important to you. How do you balance the conversational tone with the precision of your language?

It's tricky because if you fall too much in love with just how you say something, it starts feeling false. The first time you said it that way, it's because you were expressing the idea very, very clearly and compellingly and it got a huge laugh. Because you had the idea raging in your head and it exploded just right. But a year later, instead of thinking of the idea itself, you are thinking "Okay, when I say it like this they're going to really laugh" and it starts to get false and removed. When that happens, sometimes I throw away the whole bit and re-tell it from scratch. Often also, I don't do that.



Is your recent success – higher profile movie roles, TV opportunities, specials, etc – a result of having finally paid your dues, or did you do something different to bring these things about?

I know plenty of people who have paid more dues than I and have nothing. I think I'm better than I used to be. I think that helps. A lot of it is luck and staying healthy and keeping a sustained level of energy for a long time.



Last year at the Coach House (Chewed Up tour) a guy yelled for "bag of dicks" (from Shameless) at the end of the set, and you did a great job of explaining why you didn't want to do that, and then you killed with a new joke. It was so great to see you do that, and I can't imagine that anyone left still thinking, "I wish he'd done that one thing we have on DVD." Tell me a little about that. Part of your explanation was almost educating the audience on why that type of comedy sucks. At what point did you decide that that's how you were going to respond to requests, and was it difficult to craft that explanation so audiences get the picture?

It's rare that people ask for old material. I would say three people per month say "Why didn't you do suck a bag of dicks." I am sure, though, that if I did that bit today, most people would not come up to me and instead go home saying to their spouse or friend "Why did I pay to see that shit again?"



After that show, you posted some praise and career advice for your opener Harris Wittels on AST. What inspired you to do that, and did any comics give you meaningful pointers or advice when you were getting started?

Harris was really, really good and stepped up to the plate. Jerry Seinfeld gave me a bit of advice when I was younger. Chris has given me a lot. I think sharing data from experience with people that have less of both is a very good idea. I want standup comedy in general to get better, not just mine.



You've always seemed to clearly delineate between UCB/Largo/M Bar (alternative room) crowds and comedy club crowds. You've talked about how comics get away with more and easier things at those places, but I've never really understood your point on that. I view it as the people at UCB or other alternative rooms are more discerning comedy audiences than the typical comedy club. Can you explain how you see it?

I don't agree with that at all. I don't think they are more discerning. I wish I knew what discerning meant. I see a lot of sloppiness and thoughtlessness in the comedy in these rooms, even from great comics, even from myself. There is a percentage of people performing in those clubs who are doing inspired things that are somewhat indigenous to those rooms, but a lot of it is just people rattling off their take on pop culture like any other comic but they're reading it off a pad and then doing deconstruction and bombing jokes in between, so it seems intimate.

A comedy club is a place where a completely random group of people come together to see a show. It's not a "scene." So I think, in some ways, the reaction you get from a comedy club is more honest.



Are there stories/jokes you do at a place like UCB but wouldn't do elsewhere? Are there things that an audience tells you are out of bounds? (For instance, your "Abuelita's house" bit wasn't part of your act at the Coach House – I don't know if it made it into the Chewed Up special, but it was something I saw kill several times in smaller venues leading up to the Chewed Up tour.)

I did that bit a lot last year. I don't remember if I did it at UCB first. It did well but it got edged out of the special simply because there was too much sheer tonnage of feces in the set. It had to go. I used to use UCB as a testing ground for things I was uneasy about trying in other clubs. That's no longer the case because I no longer worry about trying things anywhere. To me, UCB is still exciting to perform at and I feel like my mind can wander there in a good way. If something kills there, I immediately try it at the Improv and the Store, to test it again. Then I take it all over the place.



Over the last four years or so you've faced questions about how your family reacts to your act. Your response has pretty much been, "Well, it's comedy, and I'm putting food on their table." But now you're apparently telling audiences that you're getting divorced, and it begs the question, can such brutally honest and personal comedy coexist with a healthy home life? How will your divorce impact your act? (I realize this is perhaps unfairly based on the assumption that your act had anything to do with the problems in your marriage.)

I'm in the middle of a divorce right now. The way biggest impact that has on my act is the same as it has on my life. I am now living half of every week as a single father. Dramatically different than a married father. So my relationship and life with my kids is vastly different. I won't be talking about my marriage or my ex-wife on stage anymore.

[conundrum]

Great interview

[Jouster]

Fascinating, as always. Thanks, ILIS (and Louis)!

[(Mul)Doomstone]

Agreed. Thanks a bunch for posting this.

[mike]

I love you all.

Thanks muchly.

[I love nny]

I have always enjoyed Louis' comedy but this interview made me really appreciate it for the first time. It is endlessly fascinating to me the work that goes into comedy.

[YoungAmerican]

Really great work, Mark! I read it as I prepped for my own interview with Louis, and it was an enormous help. I can only hope mine comes out as well as yours already has. Or something like that that makes more sense.

[scamboogah]

That seemed a little self serving...

jk jt wtf lol bidsallywsset

(just kidding Jesse Thorn what the fuck laugh out loud but it did seem a little like you were stealing someone else's thunder)

[Berliner]

Thanks!

[terror firma]

great interview!

[dogsdonttelljokes]

i've been listening to that xm radio interview almost daily for a few weeks, so this offers a wealth of welcome new insight.

(wealth of welcome new insight? does that sound too stuffy? what the fuck am i saying?)

awesome interview. thanks!

[Scratch Lightning]

That was a solid interview. It's nice to see questions other than "where do you come up with your material". Insightful stuff.

Although I wish you had asked Louis about the time his assistant/tour manager/whatever left his goddamn job instead of getting me free tickets to the upcoming Town Hall show like he was supposed to.

[Fentmore]

I always love a good Louis CK interview, the recent Unmasked especially. Insightful and informative ILIS and interviewee. I'm a huge fan of Louis' standup and wish I could see some "older" stuff (pre-2003) in full form rather than the bits on youtube. I feel like I came late in the game (when his half hour aired), and want to see the great material that preceeded it.

About the interview, I can't help but really feel terrible about his current divorce. I imagined all the bits he told on stage as taking a real situation/argument/feeling in real life to a heightened sense in service of the comedy but with an undercurrent of truth. That truth though seemed similiar (even sometimes exact) to what many of my family or friends' marriages have gone through. Even thinking this, I always imagined Louis' wife (never seen a picture, never met her, don't know anything about her) as the type of woman who knew what her husband did and enjoyed a similiar sense of humor (between them), but at the same time so aggravated with him for saying certain things on stage even if it really was a random story to a group of strangers. I think of Private Parts in which Stern's wife just couldn't take the assault on her (and his) private lives he let fuel his radio broadcast and persona (the more honest on air he got).

I don't know what Louis and his wife have gone through together, especially in the past few years, and I can't profess to understand the causes that laid the groundwork for their seperation. But I wanted to offer my sincere condolences to both Louis and his wife for the hard times being gone through right now. It certainly isn't easy and it certainly isn't fun, and when there are kids involved, the process becomes infinitely more complicated. Having your life upended and facing a new landscape can be daunting and, quite frankly, scary.

Good luck to the both of them and I truly hope everything works out (eventually) for the best.

[dpardue]

Superb questions lead to even more superber answers. Thanks ILIS!

[Itslikeimsayin]

Thanks for the nice words, everyone. Here's a review I wrote of "Louis C.K. Hilarious" from the Coach House show Thursday night.

[James Morris]

Thanks for the interview, I love everything Louis CK related.

I'm crossing my fingers that he comes back to North Carolina for this tour.

[Brian J.]

That interview was amazing. I was recently wondering about his burst of productivity over the last few years. If he keeps this up he's going to be a legend. Sorry to hear about his divorce though.

[kevin]

great interview, great insight. he's really trying to raise the bar for comedy and challenging oneself. sad to hear about the divorce. ::crying face emoticon::

[megalope]

That interview was amazing. I was recently wondering about his burst of productivity over the last few years. If he keeps this up he's going to be a legend.

Hey, chump, he is a legend!




(I'm sorry for calling you a chump! Disregard if you're not one.)