anyone read this book

[charles]

comedy writing secrets....
i was looking at it today at barnes and noble
i got the comics toolbox and creativity rules by john vorhous
they were suggested reading for the second city class
i figured maybe i could add it those
just knowing from the opinions on this site and the new comedians ive found on this site i trust the opinions of you all so....
let me know what ya think
charles

[CaptainBreakfast]

Don't read books on comedy.

What he said

[wrinkle_in_my_pants]

... or, read whatever you'd like and as much as you like. Take what you want from those books. You don't have to follow anyones suggestions from books as people follow scripture, but you will most likely find a few things you'll be glad you read and possibly use it in the future.

[pg13]

Comedy books aren't going to solve any of your problems...but they can be useful tools to help you get a different perspective on how you might improve. Take what works for you from them and don't feel beholden to their suggestions and you'll be all right.

I'm a big fan of the Helitzer (Comedy Writing Secrets) but, oddly, the first edition, I think, is stronger than the second...even though the information is the same. I think the old one felt like listening in to the "Your Show of Shows" writing staff--that kind of craftsmanship...while the new one felt like an editor told Mel that he had to find more current examples and it seems littered with things that don't properly show what Mel is suggesting. But, either way...as I said, most of the info is the same.

Comics Toolbox is fine--especially if you hit a wall or are in a rut.

What you REALLY want to read are less "how to" and more "how did"--look for books by Larry Wylde or Franklyn Ajaye or Gerald Nachman...read "Born Standing Up" and "Live From New York" and I REALLY recommend to EVERYONE the first couple of chapters of the "Mr. Show...What happened?" book.

And get a copy of "Zen and the Art of Stand-Up Comedy"--which seems thin but it'll be the book you go back to again and again.

And watch Jerry Seinfeld Comedian...then watch it again with the commentary on.

You might improve your process if you take good lessons from some of the how-to books, but you can UNDERSTAND the process if you absorb some of the experiences of those who have already lived it...and that, I think, can be more important.

pg--seattle

[Brian J.]

Actually I just read this book last week. I checked it out from the library. The majority of it is explaining the different types of jokes i.e. Reverse, Malaprop, Simile. And it has a lot of examples sprinkled in.

If you don't already know the joke styles it would be useful. I don't normally write Similes or Malaprops, but while reading I would put the book down and give it a shot. Other than that I don't think I'll need to consult it again.

[charles]

What he said

yeah i remember him saying that.....

[charles]

Comedy books aren't going to solve any of your problems...but they can be useful tools to help you get a different perspective on how you might improve. Take what works for you from them and don't feel beholden to their suggestions and you'll be all right.

I'm a big fan of the Helitzer (Comedy Writing Secrets) but, oddly, the first edition, I think, is stronger than the second...even though the information is the same. I think the old one felt like listening in to the "Your Show of Shows" writing staff--that kind of craftsmanship...while the new one felt like an editor told Mel that he had to find more current examples and it seems littered with things that don't properly show what Mel is suggesting. But, either way...as I said, most of the info is the same.

Comics Toolbox is fine--especially if you hit a wall or are in a rut.

What you REALLY want to read are less "how to" and more "how did"--look for books by Larry Wylde or Franklyn Ajaye or Gerald Nachman...read "Born Standing Up" and "Live From New York" and I REALLY recommend to EVERYONE the first couple of chapters of the "Mr. Show...What happened?" book.

And get a copy of "Zen and the Art of Stand-Up Comedy"--which seems thin but it'll be the book you go back to again and again.

And watch Jerry Seinfeld Comedian...then watch it again with the commentary on.

You might improve your process if you take good lessons from some of the how-to books, but you can UNDERSTAND the process if you absorb some of the experiences of those who have already lived it...and that, I think, can be more important.

pg--seattle

yeah.... a homie of mine was just telling me about born standing up thats the steve martin book right.... i need to check that out

yeah... im in this intro to comedy writing class and the john vorhaus books was aprt fo the suggested reading.. singing up for this class has been the first step of wanting to write comedy and in the end i wanna get good soo...

but thanks for the feedback

appreciate it

charles

[SlyBattery]

comedy writing secrets....
i was looking at it today at barnes and noble
i got the comics toolbox and creativity rules by john vorhous
they were suggested reading for the second city class
i figured maybe i could add it those
just knowing from the opinions on this site and the new comedians ive found on this site i trust the opinions of you all so....
let me know what ya think
charles

Other than the concept of "Yes and..." I haven't really taken much out of comedic literature. I imagine it has some good points and concepts, but nothing that is going to make you "funnier" or anything like that. If you are into honing your craft the best thing is taking classes at second city or the like (which I think you said you are doing.) Which to me is just good for giving an outlet and allowing you to meet like-minded people.

[billynord]

Not necessarily a comedy how-to book as a simple communication guide, Rudolph Franz Flesch's "The Art of Clear Thinking"

Seriously, I stumbled upon this in a thrift store years ago and it's totally changed my perspective on basically everything leaving my mouth, and continues to this day.

[pg13]

...it's totally changed my perspective on basically everything leaving my mouth, and continues to this today.

Interesting.

The book that did that for me was "Positioning" by Al Ries and Jack Trout.

pg--I know it sounds like porn, but it's really about marketing...and somehow what it said made sense in every aspect of my life, far beyond the scope of the book. Sometimes, I wish it HAD been porn...--seattle

[Gene George]

Not necessarily a comedy how-to book as a simple communication guide, Rudolph Franz Flesch's "The Art of Clear Thinking"

Seriously, I stumbled upon this in a thrift store years ago and it's totally changed my perspective on basically everything leaving my mouth, and continues to this today.

Sounded interesting and lo and behold it is on the web for download http://freebooksource.com/?p=5111

[Keith Whitener]

I think that people's philosophies of how they make comedy is implied in their comedy, but it's explicated in some comedian interviews, such as those of Jesse Thorn. Most comedian interviews fall short in this category, but Jesse's certainly do not. It's also what I shoot for in most of my comedy Q and A's.

[charles]

I think that people's philosophies of how they make comedy is implied in their comedy, but it's explicated in some comedian interviews, such as those of Jesse Thorn. Most comedian interviews fall short in this category, but Jesse's certainly do not. It's also what I shoot for in most of my comedy Q and A's.

i listen to the sound of young america all the time. i love the show.

u mentioned in most of your comedy Q and A's is there some where i can check out your interviews?

[Keith Whitener]

http://benkharakh.com/interviews

I didn't link to the ones on here yet:
http://www.buzzine.com/author/benkharakh/

[YoungAmerican]

Ben does a great job of covering how and why folks go into comedy and how they approach process in his interviews, which I think could be very valuable to a comic starting out. Everyone will have their own way of doing things, but not feeling lost is very valuable.

[Gene George]

Is it just me or does it usually just boil down to one of two things:

1) I always wanted to be a comic.
2) I just sort of fell into it, it was pretty much this or killing drifters.

[Batman The Horse]

I've found killing drifters to be much, much easier.

[Keith Whitener]

Ben does a great job of covering how and why folks go into comedy and how they approach process in his interviews, which I think could be very valuable to a comic starting out. Everyone will have their own way of doing things, but not feeling lost is very valuable.

Thank you Jesse! I am always consulting your pieces when doing research for my own work. It's odd that comedy, which is getting increasingly more and more popular, continues to lack much coverage in terms of critical examination akin to that of film and music.

Is it just me or does it usually just boil down to one of two things:

1) I always wanted to be a comic.
2) I just sort of fell into it, it was pretty much this or killing drifters.

It's not always the case that someone wants to be a comic and then does. Many actually do not think of being comics because they do not know that that's a thing that one can be, although that applies more to older comics than newer ones.

When dissecting what it is that draws someone to becoming a comedian, one also uncovers the comedian's influences and the development of their sensibilities/worldview, which is useful in understanding and enjoying their work. It's like auteur theory but with comedy rather than film.

[Tim.Shell]

I've found killing drifters to be much, much easier.

Unfortunately, the competition is very fierce. Some places, you sign up for an open drifter killing at 7:00 p.m., and you're lucky to get to the killing before 1 a.m. Or course, there are the booked drifter killings, but they're usually bringers.

[GaryLucy]

I learnt something simple and great from Lynda Barry that's helped my writing a lot: keep an observation journal. Not Seinfeld "did you ever notice..." observations, but 10 or 20 images that stuck with you from the day. Don't make it funny and REALLY don't write about how you felt, just record images. Like today mine had "abandoned banana in the parking lot" and "car in front of me had a lot of X's and K's in the license plate"...it sounds dumb but over time it changes how you look at things, which is useful for comedians.