Politics!

[Rick Paulas]

Thought I'd bring this thread back up.

So ... Obama likes FISA, huh? Retort, hipsters!

[Berliner]

Is that muslim president yet?

[seanrush]

He doesn't like FISA, but there needs to be a bill of the sort, and with FISA expiring, he voted for it at the last minute because it's better than nothing.

For the people who are now choosing not to vote for Obama now because of FISA, let me put it this way. Which would you rather have: a wiretapping bill and a president who probably won't use it, or the bill to expire and a president who will push a much much worse bill than FISA? I'd choose FISA and Obama personally.

[Berliner]

This is going to be the tip of the iceberg of things you're not going to like about Obama from here on out. Now's a pretty good time to get out so you can tell people how you liked him before he sold out.

[Me!]

McCain looks like an old dork.

[Berliner]

Hey jerks, read this!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/20/weekinreview/20cohen.html?_r=3&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[tobypdx]

<a href="http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D92NPH8G1&show_article=1">Looks like it's Biden</a>

[crazysheet]

Obama is clearly in the pocket of Big Delaware

[andrearunge]

I love that sassy pants!

[Berliner]

Oh, man, I was hoping it would be Biden! I've been to some Senate Foreign Relations Committee gearings, which Biden chairs. A lot of times, congresspeople seem to have no idea, or don't care, what the hearing panel (usually made up of academics) are saying, or just treat the whole thing like a photo op. Biden seems to be able to follow everything, and gets all the nuances. He also always seemed genuinely interested at being at the hearings and listening to what people have to say. It actually makes the hearings kind of interesting and fun, as opposed to the House Foreign Affairs Committee hearings where I want to kill myself.

Personally, I think Obama made a great choice.

[aenemaTron]

Shut up, faggit!

[Berliner]

Were you still holding out for Clinton?

[smartbunny]

This is a bad idea.

[Keith Whitener]

This is a bad idea.

What is? Politics? I agree. I suggest that we move every politician to the island nation of Politico. And every time anyone has any aspirations of being a politician, we send them there. Eventually we'll be left with only a few people, but they will be the good ones!

[kevin]

Nancy Pierogi

[smartbunny]

politico.com

[kevin]

Dennis Kuspinach

[gigglechick]

so, um.... how about that Brett Favre going to the Jets? now that, that's good stuff. man. i am happy about that! and i'm not even a Jets fan. woo boy. it's gonna be a great Autumn/Football season.

i love this thread! yay!

[kevin]

Ruth Taters' Been-Served

[Big Box Of Money]

So, what is going on with politics?

[TimBuktu]

I wish I had known how many times Michelle Obama was going to use the word "see" to start a sentence, I would have made Jello shots.

[Scammy Davis Boogah Jr.]

I have to say, Michelle Obama's speech last night was pretty damn good. That is one goddamn charismatic family.

And she didn't even mention how much she hates America and/or Whitey even once!

[Señor Colostimizer]

I have to say, Michelle Obama's speech last night was pretty damn good. That is one goddamn charismatic family.

And she didn't even mention how much she hates America and/or Whitey even once!

That family is going places.

[funnyclown]

I have to say, Michelle Obama's speech last night was pretty damn good. That is one goddamn charismatic family.

And she didn't even mention how much she hates America and/or Whitey even once!

She didn't say it, but you could tell she was thinkin' it.

[NFox]

Did Michelle Obama get a scowl tattooed on her face or something. I tuned into the convention coverage during Hillary's speech and Michelle did not look happy once. In fact, her expression could best be described as queasy. Maybe she needs some dramamine.

That said, what's up with Obama wanting to make us the UN's little biotch? I don't want 7% of our GDP being taken by an organization that has shown itself to be as corrupt as the UN is (Guns for Oil anyone?). That and we'd essentially have to give up our second amendment rights...now that's just crazy. To me, any government that doesn't want me to have a gun, is a government I should fear.

...Can we just start the whole candidate selection process over? I'll step in as acting president at the end of GWB's term until we can decide on some viable candidates on both sides, candidates that don't make me want to punch them.

-Nick

[Hated Milk Machine]

That said, what's up with Obama wanting to make us the UN's little biotch? I don't want 7% of our GDP being taken by an organization that has shown itself to be as corrupt as the UN is (Guns for Oil anyone?). That and we'd essentially have to give up our second amendment rights...now that's just crazy. To me, any government that doesn't want me to have a gun, is a government I should fear.
-Nick

Yea who else remembers that "Guns for Oil" fiasco? What a scandal!

[Scammy Davis Boogah Jr.]

Well, I guess now I know where the 'Fox' in your name comes from.

[ProfessorShutYoMouth]

She didn't say it, but you could tell she was thinkin' it.

If you look closely, she was using her eyelids to blink out a message in Black Morse Code that said "Kill Whitey".

[NFox]

Well, I guess now I know where the 'Fox' in your name comes from.
I have major problems with both major candidates...Obama's just the one in the spotlight at the moment so I'm picking on him. Just wait till the Republican Convention and I'll have a new list of grievances.

There's a reason I wish we could start the whole process over. I don't align myself with any one party so if one side actually put up a candidate I could agree with, I would vote for him or her. As it stands, I'm looking towards option C, "none of the above."

-Nick

[funnyclown]

That said, what's up with Obama wanting to make us the UN's little biotch? I don't want 7% of our GDP being taken by an organization that has shown itself to be as corrupt as the UN is (Guns for Oil anyone?). That and we'd essentially have to give up our second amendment rights...now that's just crazy. To me, any government that doesn't want me to have a gun, is a government I should fear.


RUBY RIDGE! NEVER FORGET! WACO! NEVER FORGET! JANET RENO HAS BLOOD ON HER HANDS! Also, I wouldn't elect you president of my ass. You totally ruined that Charlyne Yi thing and refused to own up to it. I don't think you and power would be a good mix.

[ProfessorShutYoMouth]

I don't align myself with any one party so if one side actually put up a candidate I could agree with, I would vote for him or her. As it stands, I'm looking towards option C, "none of the above."


Well then it sounds like it's time to take your toys and go home.

[Famous Police Dog]

Any government that doesn't want me to toke up in front of my mom, is a government I should fear, GREASE FOR PEACE

[MrDys]

I really could have choked Hillary last night. She compared herself to Harriet Tubman. Harriet. Fucking. Tubman. She's trying to carve herself out as some kind of historical figure, but she's not. I can't believe the DNC allowed her to give that speech. It was so fucking standoffish and divisive when she really needed to suck it up and praise the shit out of Obama.

[ProfessorShutYoMouth]

I am seriously just choosing to view Clinton's speech through super-gay rainbow colored glasses because I really don't have enough room in my head for any more Clinton-related drama and intrigue. I'm also ignoring James Carville, Paul Begala and the other Clinton loyalists when they come out of their hiding holes as their disgust for Obama is barely contained and manifests itself with pouting and critical comments.

Same with Bill Clinton, who gave some weird speech yesterday talking about "Candidate X" and "Candidate Y", which seemd to be a thinly veiled attempt by him to telegraph to his supporters that they should consider voting for McCain.

Anyhow, I believe that Bill will see that the Democrats are going to win this one with or without him and perhaps he will put his ego aside after Obama is sworn in.

[angryrobot]

MrDys, I think you are underestimating the division and actual hatred that formed between the two factions. Both sides were pretty cruel to each other with the Republicans pretty much playing the high school gossip "did you hear what he said, she said..." to fan the flames as high as possible. Did you see Michelle Obama's face during her speech? Daggers. This is a going to be a real problem if by some strange freak of nature Obama actually takes the White House because he's going to need the Clintons and all their inside contacts to form his administration. He can't use anyone from either Bush admin and most of Carter's advisors are dead or too old to help. I think this is one of the occasions where having Howard Dean as the chairman hurt the party because he is no fan of the Clintons himself so probably didn't do much to push for unity.

[Big Box Of Money]

I really could have choked Hillary last night. She compared herself to Harriet Tubman. Harriet. Fucking. Tubman. She's trying to carve herself out as some kind of historical figure, but she's not. I can't believe the DNC allowed her to give that speech. It was so fucking standoffish and divisive when she really needed to suck it up and praise the shit out of Obama.

I was flipping back and forth and I caught her right in the middle of the "If you hear the dogs chasin' you through the woods, don't ever stop!" part. I thought to myself "I hope the part of the speech that I just missed didn't contain a Harriet Tubman comparison, because that would be CRAZY." I was actually doing the rotating finger next to the head to denote craziness.

That being said, I had no idea the loudmouthed Texan from the Simpsons was governor of Montana.

[DiscoInferiorityComplex]

Does anyone else want to commit violent acts when Hillary supporters say they aren't sure who they're going to vote for?

[ProfessorShutYoMouth]

This is a going to be a real problem if by some strange freak of nature Obama actually takes the White House because he's going to need the Clintons and all their inside contacts to form his administration.

He didn't need their help to beat Hillary (although to be fair, they helped him in that quest), and he won't need their help to form his own administration.

[angryrobot]

You are being naive. You have no idea how many jobs they need to fill, considering how partisan the Bush administration has been - pretty much all of them - in almost every federal agency. Just the dept of Justice alone is going to be a monumental task. The only people around who have the experience to be ready on day one are the people who held those positions during the Clinton admin.

[isoS]

Are there any Hillary supporters here who weren't planning to vote for Obama before last night? I'm curious if her speech last night changed your mind, since that was one of its intended purposes. I didn't find it that convincing or genuine (then again that's kind of par for the course for Hillary in my mind), but I wasn't the target audience. The one point she touched on that struck me as persuasive was the whole, "Here are the reasons I ran for President, and that's why I'm supporting Obama."

[Berliner]

You are being naive. You have no idea how many jobs they need to fill, considering how partisan the Bush administration has been - pretty much all of them - in almost every federal agency. Just the dept of Justice alone is going to be a monumental task. The only people around who have the experience to be ready on day one are the people who held those positions during the Clinton admin.

I don't think the Clintons are the only ones with Rolodexes in town. If Obama staffs his administration the same way he staffs his campaign, there's going to be a lot of fresh blood.

[NFox]

Also, I wouldn't elect you president of my ass. You totally ruined that Charlyne Yi thing and refused to own up to it. I don't think you and power would be a good mix.
See, that's exactly what would make me such a good president. All politicians are really good for is cocking things up when everything is going long just fine...I can cock things up with my eyes closed as you saw.

Owned up enough for you? Would you let me be the president of your ass now?

-Nick

[ericluxury]

I really could have choked Hillary last night. She compared herself to Harriet Tubman. Harriet. Fucking. Tubman. She's trying to carve herself out as some kind of historical figure, but she's not. I can't believe the DNC allowed her to give that speech. It was so fucking standoffish and divisive when she really needed to suck it up and praise the shit out of Obama.

She did not compare herself to Harriet Tubman. She was quoting a great woman from the past and a comment about freedom and moving on. Have you ever watched a political speech before? Because they pretty much always contain quotes from people with far greater accomplishments and that doesn't mean a direct comparison.

I have no idea if it will help on the fence Hiliary supporters vote Obama because she front-loaded so much stuff about herself and didn't really get around to why she supports him until the 'is it really about me' stuff. However, I thought that part was very well done and sincere. The biggest problem with watching Hiliary speak is that she telegraphs all her cute lines. It doesn't help that everytime she had a soundbite the camera would cut to Bill who would chuckle and then beam.

[pmottaz]

I was glad to hear someone (the NPR Newswoman, I think) mention that everyone at the convention was probably not going to need convincing by Hillary Clinton on who to vote for.

I thought Hillary's speech was good. There was one part, however, near the early middle that felt more like it was part of what would have been her acceptance speech with a tagged on "...and that's why we should vote for Obama" at the end, but I thought her ending part was solid.

And at the risk of offending people, anyone who felt so close to Hillary Clinton that they just couldn't bring themselves to vote for another candidate, even a Democrat, needs to take a serious step back and re-examine the big picture. I thought Hillary did this very eloquently, basically saying "Me and this Obama guy, we're really after the same things. And we don't want to see John McCain win."

If someone's so loyal to Hillary that you would try to play a weird game of vote-in-McCain-so-Hillary-can-win-in-2012, then they're insane. They would leave more to chance than a typical Joker scheme.

[DiscoInferiorityComplex]

Undecided voters in general make me apoplectic. Well, not all undecided voters. Just those that are willing to go on the record and talk about why they are still undecided.

I will tolerate you if you are undecided, but have enough shame to know you should keep this to yourself. Or, if you're undecided between voting for the independent candidate whose beliefs more closely match your own or the major party candidate you find least objectionable.

However, if you're still waiting to see which candidate will lower your taxes 1% more than the other, or somehow cannot determine in your ever-so nuanced single-issue brain which candidate is more experienced, which one is going to bring more "change" to Washington, or which one will "keep your family safe from terrorists", I don't want to share this society with you.

[Scammy Davis Boogah Jr.]

I'm with you Disco. Anyone that says, "I don't like either candidate, so I'm not gonna vote", is basically telling the world that they're too ignorant or lazy to go out and find someone that actually does represent them. Either that, or too apathetic to have any interest in a process that could very well determine large scale parts of their future.

Either way, fuck 'em. The people get what the people deserve.

[NFox]

I'm with you Disco. Anyone that says, "I don't like either candidate, so I'm not gonna vote", is basically telling the world that they're too ignorant or lazy to go out and find someone that actually does represent them. Either that, or too apathetic to have any interest in a process that could very well determine large scale parts of their future.

Either way, fuck 'em. The people get what the people deserve.

That's why I'm going with "none of the above" and voting for a third party candidate. Call me an idealist, but I really think that voting should all be about picking the best person for the job, not party lines.

-Nick

[pmottaz]

That's why I'm going with "none of the above" and voting for a third party candidate. Call me an idealist, but I really think that voting should all be about picking the best person for the job, not party lines.

-Nick
Me personally, I haven't been moved enough by a third party candidate for me to vote for them/NOT vote for the "lesser of two evils" in the Big Two parties.

I would, like you, love to have 3, 4, 14 parties with legitimate chances at winning. Since they don't, the idealist in me gives way to the realist.

[Hated Milk Machine]

That's why I'm going with "none of the above" and voting for a third party candidate. Call me an idealist, but I really think that voting should all be about picking the best person for the job, not party lines.

-Nick

What third party candidate are you voting for?

[KevinLee]

I don't mind when someone doesn't vote because politicians are slimeballs.
If you all were wondering who I'm voting for this year, and I'm sure you all are, all I gotta say is, "NFox 4 President of Funnyclown's Ass 2008!!! Wooo!!!"

[Vanessa]

Does anyone else want to commit violent acts when Hillary supporters say they aren't sure who they're going to vote for?

she doesn't vote on the first date:

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[DiscoInferiorityComplex]

she doesn't vote on the first date:


Ooooooohh, they're just doing performance art. Phew, for a second there, I thought she was real. The twitching was clearly inspired by Wiig.

[Jenny]

I'm with you Disco. Anyone that says, "I don't like either candidate, so I'm not gonna vote", is basically telling the world that they're too ignorant or lazy to go out and find someone that actually does represent them. Either that, or too apathetic to have any interest in a process that could very well determine large scale parts of their future.

Either way, fuck 'em. The people get what the people deserve.

Either that or they reject the whole democratic process and dream of a Leninist revolution. Sorry, I had an encounter with one of those guys last night and I'm trying to get it off my mind.

[angryrobot]

to be fair, the Obama supporters were total assholes to the Hillary supporters. Total. They unjustly turned Hillary into Nader (who is right about the Democrats by the way). I doubt very much any of Hillary's supporters are going to vote for McCain - at worst they'll stay home. I understand them wanting revenge but I hope they understand that if McCain wins they are going to catch even more hell than Ralph Nader did in 2000.

[Berliner]

I don't think the American system was set up very well for third party candidates. However, I hope that one day someone will at least introduce runoff voting. Will never happen though.

[DiscoInferiorityComplex]

to be fair, the Obama supporters were total assholes to the Hillary supporters. Total. They unjustly turned Hillary into Nader (who is right about the Democrats by the way). I doubt very much any of Hillary's supporters are going to vote for McCain - at worst they'll stay home. I understand them wanting revenge but I hope they understand that if McCain wins they are going to catch even more hell than Ralph Nader did in 2000.

I don't think it was that unjust. She continued on in the race, long after she had a reasonable mathematical chance to win. She wasted countless dollars, and more importantly, made negative stories about Obama's credentials and reputation the top of the news cycle for two unnecessary months. If she had pulled a Mitt Romney, and said "I might be able to pull this one out, but it would do irreparable harm to my party in the process", we wouldn't be having any of these problems.

Believe me, if Hillary had a huge enough lead that Obama needed to win 65% of the vote in each of the remaining states to win (and we was polling well, but not well enough to win), and he stayed in the race and constantly bashed her credentials and brought up past scandals and policy debacles, I'd greet his unabashed supporters with scorn as well.

[angryrobot]

the assholery by the Obama people started well before Obama clinched. I understand that Hillary lost a lot of good will from the lefty blogosphere when she voted for the war but they all became bullshit hypocrite misogynists to me when they embraced Joe Biden as VP. A man who voted for the war AND championed a usurious bankruptcy bill that condemned millions of Americans into indentured servitude. The American Idol-type worship of Barack Obama has me more than a little uneasy.

Just turned on the convention. Does the stage for Obama's speech look like a big dick and square balls to anyone else?

[Jenny]

the assholery by the Obama people started well before Obama clinched. I understand that Hillary lost a lot of good will from the lefty blogosphere when she voted for the war but they all became bullshit hypocrite misogynists to me when they embraced Joe Biden as VP. A man who voted for the war AND championed a usurious bankruptcy bill that condemned millions of Americans into indentured servitude. The American Idol-type worship of Barack Obama has me more than a little uneasy.

Just turned on the convention. Does the stage for Obama's speech look like a big dick and square balls to anyone else?

So you're going with Nader, I assume? I think the Clintons were dismissive of Obamaduring the campaign,but many were also turned off by the rabid Clinton fanbase. (the three am ad, bill saying Obama wasn't ready to be president) And what is this bill you speak of?

[NFox]

What third party candidate are you voting for?

Right now, I'm going towards Bob Barr, but I'm open to change. I'll be researching any candidate no matter how obscure until the moment I step into that booth in November.

I fought long and hard to like either of the main two candidates, but just couldn't in good conscience say I was voting for one for any other reason than to vote against the other. So, I started reading up on the third party guys. I don't align myself with any particularly party, but if pressed I guess I would say I'm Libertarian (Socially Liberal, and Economically Conservative) as I want the government out of my personal life and out of my wallet. For the moment, Bob Barr is the closest to my ideals...so, for the moment he has my tentative vote.

...If he ends up having a really boring sex scandal (I can't imagine him being caught having anything but really boring sex) or something between now and election time, I may have to realign again*, but It appears for the first time in my life I'll be voting for someone who doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning, and I gotta say, it feels good.

-Nick


*If he has an awesome sex scandal...I may find a way to vote for him twice.

[Jenny]

Uhm, you know Bob Barr signed the defense of marriage act,right?

[NFox]

Uhm, you know Bob Barr signed the defense of marriage act,right?

A) Yes I do.

B) Wasn't it signed 11(ish) years ago?

C) Isn't it possible he's changed his view since then (If only to gain a larger base)?

D) Even if he still agrees with it still, he's still the candidate I agree with on the most topics. If I had to wait for a candidate that I agreed with on all subjects, I'd end up running for president.

-Nick

[Jenny]

That, and he is very anti abortion and doesn't give a damn about the environment: http://ontheissues.org/Bob_Barr.htm#Families_+_Children

Sorry,but I care about social issues not just foreign policy or the economy.

[NFox]

That, and he is very anti abortion and doesn't give a damn about the environment: http://ontheissues.org/Bob_Barr.htm#Families_+_Children

Sorry,but I care about social issues not just foreign policy or the economy.

No need to apologize. I like that we differ on opinions. It keeps things interesting...and you know, human.

The specific issues you picked out are two that I could have a year long discussion about...so I'll save you all and just say that regardless of those two issues and my stance on them, the economy is my biggest issue. Well, that and our foreign policy and personal privacy. Thanks to the PATRIOT Act, just by me typing "PATRIOT Act" in any proximity to words like bomb, president, White House, 9/11, or Al Qaeda, I've made terror suspects of AST's entire user base...sorry.

-Nick

[TimBuktu]

If Barack's speech and video made me choke up, am I a pussy?

[samishah]

I'm a Pakistani and I choked up. Jeezus.

[chapina]

If Barack's speech and video made me choke up, am I a pussy?

The snuggle crew makes you a pussy.

I am/was a Hilary supporter, but not the I-won't-vote-for-anybody-else-but-her kind. There are some issues that made me lean more towards her than Obama, but in the end I knew I was going to support whoever got the nomination.

That said, that was a hell of a speech. I still have some problems with him, but I'm genuinely excited to cast my vote for him in November.

[Aaron1933]

"Obama expected to address change in speech"

That's a CNN headline. I thought it was a joke at first.

[Berliner]

Anyone know where there's a online video to this Obama speech? Thanks.

[crlygrl]

I just found it at CNN

[KevinLee]

Should we post Tim's video here? Any ne who's reading this thread and isn't reading "I Make Tapes" has some 'xplainin' to do.

[angryrobot]

video of the speech here

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/28/231155/381/678/577997

[Berliner]

Hmm, not as inspiring to me as I was hoping to be, but definitely a lot of highlights.


The specific issues you picked out are two that I could have a year long discussion about...so I'll save you all and just say that regardless of those two issues and my stance on them, the economy is my biggest issue.


Not sure why you believe Barr can handle the economy better than Obama, but by all means, please vote for him.

[bao]

Right now, I'm going towards Bob Barr, but I'm open to change.

I figure there are only two possibilities for people who will vote for Bob Barr:

(1) Those who are desparately searching for the candidate who best represents their political views, now that Augusto Pinochet is dead, or ...

(2) Those who are too young to remember the 1990s, when Bob Barr was a Republican Party hatchetman, and a cunt of Limbaugh-esque proportions.

On the other hand, those of us who remember Bob Barr on television nightly moralizing and calling for Clinton's impeachment for getting head from a clerk, know perfectly well what the moustache is hiding. Or not hiding.

[TenJay]

McCain picks women who governs a lot of oil, news at eleven...

[Hated Milk Machine]

Ah yes, Bob Barr, that special kind of libertarian that supports the war on drugs, is against gay marriage, proposes banning of certain religions in the military, and was pro-Patriot Act.

Those kinds of socially liberal positions should be right in line with yours, NFox. What was his position on the "Guns for Oil" scandal?

[aenemaTron]

(2) Those who are too young to remember the 1990s, when Bob Barr was a Republican Party hatchetman, and a cunt of Limbaugh-esque proportions.
.

Yeah, but so was David Brock.

Let's try to be civil in this thread, people. Sarcasm is OK, you know, but just don't be a jerk just because you think that someone else is a jerk or you think they're smug or whatever. Take the high road.

[TimBuktu]

http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/images/2007/07/15/babar.jpg

[TimBuktu]

Hey, I made this tape which has a lot of stuff about politics in it. You can totally not watch it, but I thought it was barely relevant.

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[ProfessorShutYoMouth]

With McCain's pick of Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate I think the Dems just lost.

[conundrum]

With McCain's pick of Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate I think the Dems just lost.

I think you're right unfortunately

[mezmorized]

McCain picks women who governs a lot of oil, news at eleven...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/us/politics/29palin.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

DAYTON, Ohio — In a surprise move, Senator John McCain chose Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska as his running mate on Friday, shaking up the political world at a time when his campaign has been trying to attract women, especially disaffected supporters of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, McCain officials confirmed.

In choosing Ms. Palin — a 44-year-old conservative Christian and self-described “hockey mom” who has been governor for less than two years — the McCain campaign reached far outside the Washington Beltway in an election in which the Democratic nominee, Senator Barack Obama, is running on a platform of change.

There goes McCain's "He's got no experience" argument. He fucked himself good this time.

With McCain's pick of Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate I think the Dems just lost.

Actually I think the playing field just got leveled.

[TimBuktu]

With McCain's pick of Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate I think the Dems just lost.

I don't know if you're being serious, but this is so obviously a move to try and snatch up Hillary supporters... Also, this ad.

... I can't find it....

It's a woman talking about how she was going to vote for Hillary, but now she's voting for McCain... She says "I'm a democrat and for the first time I'm voting Republican... " and then she says "It's ok... really"

I know there are people who liked Hillary more as a candidate, but some of these jaded women are really pissing me off. Get the fuck over it already. You're really going to put a Republican in office because Barack isn't a lady? Thanks a lot.

[TimBuktu]

Here's the ad...

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[DiscoInferiorityComplex]

With McCain's pick of Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate I think the Dems just lost.

Just like when all those women voters flocked to Mondale? Any moderate out there who would vote for a candidate just because he has a female VP, ignoring her strong pro-life views in the process, likely was already leaning towards McCain anyway. I think that type of voter isn't social-issues/platform driven. They're the type who favor experience as defined by years and leadership as defined by experience.

[isoS]

With McCain's pick of Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate I think the Dems just lost.

I was thinking the opposite: Obama has McCain playing on his terms, reacting instead of setting his own course. It seems like the candidate who sets the ground rules for a campaign is usually the one who wins.

This pick is too calculated and pretty extreme in a lot of ways, which does a couple of things: moderates will look at Palin's positions and say "no thanks," the handful of nutjobs who don't want a woman to be President ever will do the same (and if it gets dirty, which it will, look for ads pointing out McCain's infirmity and Palin's inexperience), and a lot of reasonable Republicans will just roll their eyes and say, "Johnny went too far to make a point." McCain is trying to take away Obama's "change" argument by casting himself as a political maverick, an experienced politician who has remained an outsider, but with his record and his support of Bush he can't win that argument, so all he's doing is driving away his own party's base.

Note: I don't know very much about politics and don't follow them closely, so all this conjecture could be completely wrong.

[chapina]

If she's related to Michael Palin, I'm in!

[ericluxury]

I don't think it will drive away his base. Apparently Palin declined to abort her child after it was discovered that it had Down's Syndrome. She is very Christian so it could help get the conservative Christians who vote on faith. Thats not McCain's base so much as the base of the Republicans in general. She's also got a reformer image who fought against Republican who were corrupt. And she can maybe get the people who just want a lady in office.

All of that really depends on her political skill and charisma. McCain doesn't even know if she is charismatic on a large scale. If she is a Quayle type choice, then it will appear to be a desperation pick.

Either way though it was a smart choice to have a surprise choice after Obama gave such a speech last night.

[angryrobot]

I just turned the tv on and I thought McCain had picked Tina Fey. Hey what the hell, she was the mayor of a town with a population of 5400 and has run a state of less than a million, why not.

Rove's secret polling must show McCain's situation even more desperate than it looks to us.

[ProfessorShutYoMouth]

I just think that Republicans have been praying for a reason to get excited about McCain's campaign and his pick of Sarah Palin may have given them that reason.

She is not just an empty dress to look pretty next to McCain, she is a strong woman with a (limited) history of making actual changes to a corrupt government. I think she actually will outshine McCain with her speeches and will not let Joe Biden run over her in the debates.

Although, it may get awkward if McCain stares at her ass everytime they are onstage together because he can't keep his eyes off of it right now (she is giving her speech).

[angryrobot]

She's a excellent speaker. When was the last time a Presidency was won when the VP was more interesting and charismatic?

She sounds great until you start reading about how she wants to teach Creationism in public schools. I'm not sure how the mothers in America are going to react to the idea of leaving your 4 month old baby at home to travel the country for 2 months. I think it would border on abuse to take the child with her on her campaign stops.

[andrearunge]

Are you kidding me? Is she the governor of Alaska or a real estate agent from Fresno? I can't tell.

She has no relevant experience other than birthing the babies. They picked a uterus, not a vice presidential running mate.

Also, nice use of the first born son as cannon fodder. Two Sept 11th references in a row? (Her son enlisted on Sept. 11th 2007 and will be deployed on Sept. 11th 2008. Yeah. That wasn't manufactured at all. I wouldn't be suprised if Cheney has her son killed in Iraq just for the sympathy vote. The Republicans have made me that cynical.)

Biden will have to tone down his scrappiness in the debates so as not to look like a bully against the little lady, but other than that, I don't see her as having that big impact on the election.

[ProfessorShutYoMouth]

Biden will have to tone down his scrappiness in the debates so as not to look like a bully against the little lady, but other than that, I don't see her as having that big impact on the election.

I have heard some pundits say similar things, but I think it is more disrespectful to her as a woman if he treats her with kid gloves during the debates. But yeah I guess see that because he can get pretty contentious. Something about her makes me think she will scrap right back though.

I am pleased with the Democrats response to this pick so far. Obama of course offered a mild congratulations but everyon else is tearing her down already. Which, sad to say, is good because that is something the Democrats are usually not very good at.

That, and finding attractive women to have affairs with.

[Keith Whitener]

Please don't call it pro-life. You are being manipulated every time you use that phrase. No one who is pro-choice is anti-life. Call it for what it is: Anti-Choice.

This is the same as when non-interventionism began to be referred to as isolationism.

[craigtnelson]

I'm not going to debate whether she'd be experienced enough in issues like the war in Iraq, Russia/Georgia, inner city gun ownership, farming, FEMA... because there's nothing to debate.

But I will say that Kristen Wiig is probably tapdancing right now at being able to put on that accent.

[TomHicks]

Almost eveything being written about her inexperience and lack of national profile so far can be easily switched around and turned into a positive. Like if she's in a debate with Biden, and the press label her the loser, then the Republicans can go "Wow! You beat a girl!" all sarcastically*.



*An homage to a Bill Murray Weekend Update segment on letting women in the military serve in combat situations

[charles star]

I have heard some pundits say similar things, but I think it is more disrespectful to her as a woman if he treats her with kid gloves during the debates. But yeah I guess see that because he can get pretty contentious. Something about her makes me think she will scrap right back though.
The reasonable position is that treating her with kid gloves is sexist. This is a position that most people will not take if Biden decides to follow through. The realistic position is that really going after her will make him look like a bully. Still, he can hammer away at McCain all he wants.

As for Palin, she says that she is a hockey mom? She was the mayor of a town that could fit into the University of Alaska- Anchorage's hockey rink (http://www.uscho.com/m/alaska-anchorage-seawolves/mens-college-hockey/team,uaa.html) if there was a hurricane. They'd have room to stretch out.

[DiscoInferiorityComplex]

Please don't call it pro-life. You are being manipulated every time you use that phrase. No one who is pro-choice is anti-life. Call it for what it is: Anti-Choice.

Please don't call it pro-choice. You are being manipulated every time you use that phrase. No one who is pro-life is simply anti-choice. Call it for what it is: Pro-Fetus Murdering

[Hurm]

All her children's names sound like All My Children

"Palin and her husband Todd have five children, Bristol, Piper, Track, Willow, and Trig.
Trig's full name is Trig Paxson Van Palin."

[NFox]

Please don't call it pro-choice. You are being manipulated every time you use that phrase. No one who is pro-life is simply anti-choice. Call it for what it is: Pro-Fetus Murdering

And this is why I tried to steer away from the topic of Abortion when it was brought up in regard to Bob Barr and his position. I've had this very debate enough times to know that it never ends up being productive (The very reason I've kept my opinion of abortion out of all of this).

To those who choose to pursue this debate here: Have fun :P

-Nick

[Berliner]

What the hell? I think she's such an unknown that its going to be hard to accurately speculate exactly how she's going to affect the campaign right now, but it just seems obvious right now that the cons outweigh the pros with having her as VP.

[Keith Whitener]

You could only call it pro-fetus murder if it was aborted during the 9th or 11th week of pregnancy (I am unsure which.). Before then it would be Clump of Cells Murder. And people who are pro-choice don't think abortions are fantastic things that everyone should get, but, rather, that they are a thing that one should be able to choose to get if they so please. It is the choice that is being contended and it is the choice that anti-choicers are against. They do not want you to have an abortion conducted in a medical office as a choice. Instead, back alleys or coat hangers are preferred.

[ProfessorShutYoMouth]

Please don't call it pro-choice. You are being manipulated every time you use that phrase. No one who is pro-life is simply anti-choice. Call it for what it is: Pro-Fetus Murdering

Since when is murdering fetuses such a bad thing?

You are way too politically correct.

[Kentock]

You could only call it pro-fetus murder if it was aborted during the 9th or 11th week of pregnancy (I am unsure which.). Before then it would be Clump of Cells Murder. And people who are pro-choice don't think abortions are fantastic things that everyone should get, but, rather, that they are a thing that one should be able to choose to get if they so please. It is the choice that is being contended and it is the choice that anti-choicers are against. They do not want you to have an abortion conducted in a medical office as a choice. Instead, back alleys or coat hangers are preferred.

I think the basic point is that you should grant your opponents a certain measure of respect. I think that includes referring to them by what they believe they are for than by what you believe they are against.

Agree or disagree, you have to at least acknowledge that the pro-life movement is sincere in its attempt to preserve life, as it defines the concept.

[DiscoInferiorityComplex]

Since when is murdering fetuses such a bad thing?

You are way too politically correct.

I never said is was bad. I'm actually not that upset about parents murdering toddlers (up until the point they can beg for their lives).

[Keith Whitener]

I think the basic point is that you should grant your opponents a certain measure of respect. I think that includes referring to them by what they believe they are for than by what you believe they are against.


While that is an excellent point, one has to take into consideration that pro-life is not a value neutral term. It conjures up the image that one's opposition is anti-life, and that would certainly be an unpopular camp. It's like someone saying they're pro-troops instead of pro-war.

[NFox]

I think the basic point is that you should grant your opponents a certain measure of respect. I think that includes referring to them by what they believe they are for than by what you believe they are against.

Agree or disagree, you have to at least acknowledge that the pro-life movement is sincere in its attempt to preserve life, as it defines the concept.

That has to be one of the smartest things written in this entire thread. I think it is an important lesson to remember not just as it applies to abortion, but also as it applies to politics in general. Define your position and defend it, don't try to build your own position up by breaking down and redefining others. It is that mentality that has lend to the unbearable amount of mudslinging that constitutes a modern political campaign.

-Nick

[ProfessorShutYoMouth]

Define your position and defend it, don't try to build your own position up by breaking down and redefining others. It is that mentality that has lend to the unbearable amount of mudslinging that constitutes a modern political campaign.

-Nick

That's what I find remarkable about the McCain campaign - he has yet to consistently articulate what he is going to do while in office. All we see in the media from Republican operatives are attacks on Obama, and very little in the way of what McCain will be doing to clean up George Bush's mess.

I think McCain is too restricted by Bush operatives to really take him on and say "I know Bush was a failure and I am going to do something about it." Palin seems a bit more of a wild card and she has a history of taking on corrupt Republicans so we'll see if she goes that route or if she simply attacks Obama and Biden.

[Embiggen]

You have to admit, she's pretty damn cute. And never underestimate the voting power of nerds with naughty librarian fetishes.

http://eyeball-series.org/hacker/pict132.jpg

I think Sas is right, though -- the very fact that McCain is letting Obama's campaign dictate the tack of his means he's already on his heels. Hopefully this mean's Obama's got it in the bag, and we can just relax and enjoy all the great political comedy that the next two months will bring.

[andrearunge]

Who wouldn't want to buy a condo from her?

[Hated Milk Machine]

Who wouldn't want to buy a condo from her?

haha this makes me laugh!

[TenJay]

I'm just glad to see Hockey moms finally getting their day in the sun...

[yumitree]

I'm just glad to see Hockey moms finally getting their day in the sun...

i wonder if she's only going to get coverage on the versus network.

[TenJay]

i wonder if she's only going to get coverage on the versus network.

To and Shay sir

I heard she does have a BA broadcasting and did some utility work for a news program in the sports department so she's officially more qualified then any one running the versus network

[Embiggen]

Why is Palin a hero for carrying her baby with Down Syndrome to term? She had that baby when she was what, 44? Wouldn't her age be the main reason why it has Down Syndrome in the first place?

[Marty_Malt]

Agree or disagree, you have to at least acknowledge that the pro-life movement is sincere in its attempt to preserve life, as it defines the concept.

Are they really though? I mean many of them, if not most, oppose abortion even when it is being performed to save the mothers life. Throw in their pro-death penalty and pro-war stances and at BEST they are pretty selective.

Now the Catholic church on the other hand... Those motherfuckers are pro-life. They are vocally opposed to anything that ends a life. (At least now, we'll ignore their silence during the slave trade and the holocaust.)

[rabbitandox]

Why is Palin a hero for carrying her baby with Down Syndrome to term? She had that baby when she was what, 44? Wouldn't her age be the main reason why it has Down Syndrome in the first place?

Usually that decision indicates a level of liberal thought, in that the parents refuse to buy into the stigma attached to Down Syndrome and are willing to grant a level of dignity to all persons, regardless of number of chromosomes.

But in Palin's case, it's also an advertisement of her feelings on abortion. It tells the staunch pro-lifers that even in a case where abortion was more easily justifiable, she decided against it.

So she's either a good liberal or a good evangelical (or both?). I can't tell yet.

[ericluxury]

You have to admit, she's pretty damn cute. And never underestimate the voting power of nerds with naughty librarian fetishes.
This will be my most piggish post, but what are you talking about Embig?

You'd think a country that this is not the same country that tsk-tsks Jennifer Love Hewitt for gaining 10 pounds over the course of 8 years.

compare:
http://vivirlatino.com/i/2007/10/HillaryClinton.jpg vs. http://livingalaska.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/sarah_palin2.jpg

Hillary is as pretty as Palin. And I don't say this as one of those people who thinks Hillary was ugly (thankfully there was less of that analysis this primary season than in previous years). I say it only as, get over it people.

Think about Palin vs. the average 44-year old lady and then think about Obama vs. the average 47-year old man. Obama is way handsomer than Palin is pretty.

[Famous Police Dog]

Why aren't we talking about the issues!

We should be talking about the issues!

[Embiggen]

Usually that decision indicates a level of liberal thought, in that the parents refuse to buy into the stigma attached to Down Syndrome and are willing to grant a level of dignity to all persons, regardless of number of chromosomes.

But in Palin's case, it's also an advertisement of her feelings on abortion. It tells the staunch pro-lifers that even in a case where abortion was more easily justifiable, she decided against it.

So she's either a good liberal or a good evangelical (or both?). I can't tell yet.

I think you're missing my point. Her decision to have a baby at 44 caused the Down syndrome in the first place. You can't cause the problem and then be a hero for dealing with it. I wasn't really addressing the abortion part of it as much as the bad decision-making to have a fifth baby at age 44.

[Embiggen]

...and this is more fun than talking about issues. Let's talk about McCain's first wife!

[Jenny]

I think the basic point is that you should grant your opponents a certain measure of respect. I think that includes referring to them by what they believe they are for than by what you believe they are against.

Agree or disagree, you have to at least acknowledge that the pro-life movement is sincere in its attempt to preserve life, as it defines the concept.

No, no it isn't always: see Marty Malt's response and the fact that there have been murders of abortion doctors and bomb threats against clinics. I don't care about measures of respect: I want freedom of reproduction choice and I just don't think McCaine can grant that.

[funnyclown]

I don't think it will drive away his base. Apparently Palin declined to abort her child after it was discovered that it had Down's Syndrome. She is very Christian so it could help get the conservative Christians who vote on faith. Thats not McCain's base so much as the base of the Republicans in general. She's also got a reformer image who fought against Republican who were corrupt. And she can maybe get the people who just want a lady in office.

All of that really depends on her political skill and charisma. McCain doesn't even know if she is charismatic on a large scale. If she is a Quayle type choice, then it will appear to be a desperation pick.

Either way though it was a smart choice to have a surprise choice after Obama gave such a speech last night.

I think I agree with just about all of this. If the pick had been Romney or Ridge, no one would be talking about it now. I also imagine she's more substantive than I'd like to assume. Still, this seems like a desperate pander to me, an effort to both draw in the Hillary fans and make McCain's campaign an historic one. The problem is I don't believe many Hillary supporters feel good about this. I would imagine more of them are insulted than excited right now. I also agree with people who say that this deflates the Obama is too inexperienced argument. Resume-wise, Palin is a major lightweight. Unless she's an amazingly confidence-inspiring speaker, people are not going to be comfortable having her waiting in line behind a pallid 72-year-old with a history of cancer. On top of that, she's inextricably tied in to the oil industry. I think this was the kind of pick McCain had to make, but it makes me feel a little less nervous about November than I did a week ago.

[isoS]

I think you're missing my point. Her decision to have a baby at 44 caused the Down syndrome in the first place. You can't cause the problem and then be a hero for dealing with it. I wasn't really addressing the abortion part of it as much as the bad decision-making to have a fifth baby at age 44.

That's a pretty extreme argument. Yes, having a baby past 35 increases the risk of Down Syndrome and other defects/complications, but that's like saying driving a car increases your risk of getting in an accident, so it's irresponsible to drive. Having a baby at 44 isn't all that crazy or unusual, and if you support the right for a woman to choose to abort a pregnancy, you should support the right for a woman to choose to intiate one at whatever age she wants. She's not a hero for having the baby, but she's not a villain for conceiving it either.

It could be moot, though, as my gossip-mongering wife just told me the baby might actually be Palin's teen daughter's (Gasp!).

Yeah, shit just got real soapy up in this election.

[Embiggen]

That's a pretty extreme argument. Yes, having a baby past 35 increases the risk of Down Syndrome and other defects/complications, but that's like saying driving a car increases your risk of getting in an accident, so it's irresponsible to drive. Having a baby at 44 isn't all that crazy or unusual, and if you support the right for a woman to choose to abort a pregnancy, you should support the right for a woman to choose to intiate one at whatever age she wants. She's not a hero for having the baby, but she's not a villain for conceiving it either.

It could be moot, though, as my gossip-mongering wife just told me the baby might actually be Palin's teen daughter's (Gasp!).

Yeah, shit just got real soapy up in this election.

Well, can we at least agree she's a villain for naming him Trig Paxson Van Palin?

Also, that's some great gossip. Regardless of whether it's true, it's too bad the left doesn't have a misinformation machine it can churn that little tidbit through a la the right's "Obama is a muslim" thing.

[rabbitandox]

I think you're missing my point. Her decision to have a baby at 44 caused the Down syndrome in the first place. You can't cause the problem and then be a hero for dealing with it. I wasn't really addressing the abortion part of it as much as the bad decision-making to have a fifth baby at age 44.

Well part of my point was that "problem" is not a good way to refer to a person, so I wouldn't necessarily accuse Palin of bad decision-making. As long as the means to care for the kid are available, I would think that the decision to keep/make a kid with Down Syndrome is a decision worthy of respect for the same reason that a vegetarian or a slave-owner who frees her slaves is worthy of respect: it's a decision that rejects social norms to more liberally extend the right to dignity and happiness. (Unless, as I said before, her decision was based more on a certain misreading of the Bible.)

[charles star]

I think you're missing my point. Her decision to have a baby at 44 caused the Down syndrome in the first place. You can't cause the problem and then be a hero for dealing with it. I wasn't really addressing the abortion part of it as much as the bad decision-making to have a fifth baby at age 44.
As someone who has recently fathered a perfectly healthy boy (as far as we know) with a woman who turned 39 in the middle of her pregnancy - and dodged the bullet of having to contemplate Palin's dilemma - I am a bit vexed by this line of thinking. You are essentially criticizing a pro-life woman (who for all we know is also anti-contraception for similar churchy reasons) for having unproteced sex with her husband. And while it is true that the incidence of Down increases with the age of the mother, by no means do children with Down constitute a majority of children born to 40+ mothers - the odds are closer to 1 in 20.

That she publicized and made political hay of her decision - which was more a affirmation of her faith than a truly difficult decision for her - offends me too but that appears to be the only thing she did wrong here.

[Embiggen]

Apologies all around. It's obviously a touchy subject that I shouldn't have brought up, and I guess my main gripe is with the politicization of her decision, too.

In my defense, I never referred to a person as a problem, and I think even the most liberal, open-minded person in the world would rather their child not have to deal with a syndrome that is, to my eye, difficult and problematic.

Also, this graph backs up what Charles is saying (even at 45, your chances are only about 1 in 25), but also emphasizes the huge gain in risk on a percentage basis when you're over 40:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Trisomy21_graph.jpg

Of course, every woman's free to have a baby whenever she wants to, and I'm free not to consider her heroic. And, with that, I swear I'm done derailing the thread.

[isoS]

Well, can we at least agree she's a villain for naming him Trig Paxson Van Palin?

Absolutely.

[Big Box Of Money]

Would now be a bad time to use that "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics" graphic? Yeah, yeah it probably would. I'll show myself out, thanks.

[Scammy Davis Boogah Jr.]

Apparently Obama and Biden must abort retarded babies all the time. Otherwise, bringing it up at all would be completely pointless.

I'd like to introduce my special needs son, Trigonometry Calculus Rocket Scientist Pilot Inspector.

[rabbitandox]

Apologies all around. It's obviously a touchy subject that I shouldn't have brought up, and I guess my main gripe is with the politicization of her decision, too.

Not sure if this is meant for me directly, but I didn't see any need for apology. I just felt like sharing ideas. We're cool.

[AceToast]

Well, can we at least agree she's a villain for naming him Trig Paxson Van Palin?

She would have picked up a nice chunk of votes for McCain had she gone with EDDIE Van Palin...

Poor planning on her part.

[ProfessorShutYoMouth]

This is comforting:

“In an interview with Alaska Business Monthly shortly after she took office in 2007, Palin was asked about the upcoming surge. She said she hadn't thought about it. "I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq,"

[funnyclown]

Apparently Obama and Biden must abort retarded babies all the time. Otherwise, bringing it up at all would be completely pointless.


I couldn't agree more. Either way, we're gonna be seeing a lot of that retarded baby over the next couple months. Also, Track is a dumber name than Trig, but he is joining the military (i.e., a brave hero), so please pretend I never said that.

Anyway, the more I read on Palin (I actually have yet to see or hear her speak), the more I find her to be the right-wing version of what Republicans believe Obama to be, namely the best actor for the role of candidate, someone with the right screen presence to sucker in the plebs. It seems like creepy Karl Rove shit, which means it will probably work. By all accounts, she's pretty charming, and there is definitely a cross-section of the country that would feel really good about voting for a candidate who named her daughter Bristol and whose husband is a snowmobile champion. Plus, she resisted having abortion! And she KNEW the baby was going to be mildly retarded! Most people would abort a Down's Syndrome kid out of spite, but to let it live and actually maybe even love it? Saint Sarah Palin, I call her. Christ, and once it gets older... Imagine the indignity of having an adult child who has to be a WalMart greeter or a lovable TV star. Sends a shudder down my spine.

Also, did you know that she was responsible for repealing the tax on snowmobiles and small private airplanes in Alaska? That's right, snowmobiles. What's her husband's 3rd main source of income again? Oh, that's right--he's a pro snowmobiler. Saint Conflict of Interest is more like it. Fucking jerk.

[smartbunny]

Does McCain think that women are so stupid that they will not research the issues and merely vote for someone with ovaries? This chick is against a woman's right to choose, against gay marriage, believes creationism should be taught in schools and doesn't believe global warming is caused by human actions. And they talk about Obama having no experience!

Soooo... because she has a uterus all women will swing over and vote for her? Way to not give women any credit.

[mezmorized]

Why aren't we talking about the issues!

We should be talking about the issues!

Shut up Kucinich. The grown ups are talking.

[angryrobot]

Shut up Kucinich. The grown ups are talking.

Denny had the best speech of the convention if you ask me. This is the speech we should have been hearing over and over and over but I only heard once and of course it was not in prime time. Where the hell was the anger? I guarantee it we will see it at the Rep convention and the stupid Dems will be left scratching their head in November.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bVp9cWOcZ7g&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bVp9cWOcZ7g&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Theyear2525now.]

Now the Catholic church on the other hand... Those motherfuckers are pro-life. They are vocally opposed to anything that ends a life. (At least now, we'll ignore their silence during the slave trade and the holocaust.)

Actually Marty, if I recall anything from my WWII class, the Center Party (aka: the Catholic Party) were the ones who supported The Enabling Act that gave Hitler the right to become a dictator in the first place.


Does McCain think that women are so stupid that they will not research the issues and merely vote for someone with ovaries? This chick is against a woman's right to choose, against gay marriage, believes creationism should be taught in schools and doesn't believe global warming is caused by human actions. And they talk about Obama having no experience!

Soooo... because she has a uterus all women will swing over and vote for her? Way to not give women any credit. .)

As blue as I am, I don't think that the Republicans are stupid enough to think that not women but FEMINISTS are stupid enough to vote for a woman simply because she's a woman. But it would be easier for me to believe that the Republicans, seemingly aloof to most topics under the label "Sexual Politics" won't try to benefit from the bad blood between the Women and African American movements that still holds a sore spot and has done so since the Suffragist Movement of both minorities.

Although I honestly can't see some of my hard core feminist friends ever voting for a women who doesn't believe in giving a woman the right over her very own body(and THANK YOU BEN FOR BEING A GENTLEMEN and not using that silly fucking term that denotes some women "choose" to get raped), there is still that soft and damaged part of my soul that wonders why the Womens Movement and The African American Movement never continued to hold hands and fight together for equality. If this is the case, I think it's MORE disturbing that the Republicans would think I'd vote for them because they think that all girls like to hold grudges from the Ol' First Wave O' Feminism as opposed to assuming I'm a raging idiot that will DO anything for POWER.

[mezmorized]

The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-j-elisberg/the-worst-vice-presidenti_b_122491.html

Nuff said.

My favorite quote from the article above.

In the end, the only case she herself made for being on the ticket was praising Hillary Clinton! That's it, period. Now, it might be enough to attract some women -- but it doesn't make a case for the ticket. Why? Hint: some women did vote for Hillary Clinton solely because she was a woman. But most women voted for Hillary Clinton because she was a Democrat, as well as a woman, who stood for important Democratic values they seriously believed in. If Sarah Palin wants to praise Hillary Clinton, go for it. But at least understand what you're praising. Because it will likely come back and bite you.

It was a thin, nothing, empty speech. It was a speech to be head of the Chamber of Commerce. Compare that to the speech by Joe Biden when Barack Obama introduced him. Eloquent, soaring and explaining in blunt detail why John McCain should not be president. Joe Biden must have been watching Sarah Palin's speech, in order to take notes in preparation for his debate with her and thought, "This isn't fair."

Like I said yesterday, McCain fucked himself good. I'm not as optimistic in saying the Democrats have this lock stock and barrel, but the Republicans did make this that much easier for the Democrats to take the White House.

And I didn't even think of how many 3rd party candidates who could be spoilers for the Republicans by taking people who would normally just vote Republican in any other election.

Just think of how big the hole is the Republicans are trying to get out of. They not only have to get people to forget about the past 8 years, they have to appear sympathetic to issues like the failing economy, health care and the environment, which would be like making a child, who loves chocolate milk, drink soy milk in order to live to see tomorrow. Answers like "let the market decide" won't help them in an election where the market is dying. The choice of Palin, like it's stated in the article, was a misguided effort to look down a different direction. Asthetically it was the right decision, but a poor one for a candidate looking to show substance and experience in his campaign.

McCain's hopes for the White House:
Born April 2007 - Died July 2007
Born again February 2008 - died again August 2008

You will be missed...

[crazysheet]

I can't wait till Barack Obama is president, so all of America's millions of problems will be solved already. That's gonna be great, the moment that happens.

[angryrobot]

I can't wait till Barack Obama is president, so all of America's millions of problems will be solved already. That's gonna be great, the moment that happens.


I'll settle for a president that doesn't willfully make things worse for the middle class in an effort to turn America into a two class system.

[yomamacuhsuckit]

Denny had the best speech of the convention if you ask me. This is the speech we should have been hearing over and over and over but I only heard once and of course it was not in prime time. Where the hell was the anger? I guarantee it we will see it at the Rep convention and the stupid Dems will be left scratching their head in November.

<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bVp9cWOcZ7g&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

You have to be kidding me. I agree with more or less everything Kucinich is saying there, but you think the average American (even the average intelligent American) is going to be swayed by this goof ball hopping around stage repeating what's been said over and over and shouting liberal platitudes at the top of his lungs? Up with jobs? Up with health care! What fresh ideas! Yes he's angry, but not in a way that's novel or unconventional in any way. The reason he had the crowd standing was because he was telling everyone there what they wanted to hear the way they wanted to hear it, but it's nothing anyone else would be interested in. Kucinich is comfort food for the DNC base.

Even though I hate him and thought he ran maybe the worst campaign I've ever seen, I thought Kerry's speech was biting and much more the sort of thing we should be seeing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO2PAm4iCtE .

Still, if Obama's speech wasn't angry enough for us, it was a very good speech. My mormon mom, who was leaning toward McCain, loved it, and his bounce was HUGE. Obviously it will go down, but I thought it was tonally competent and something a lot of people will want to hear. But his speeches won me over before his book and his campaign did, so I might be too much his audience.

How do you embed youtube videos?

Oh, and on Palin:
hahahahahahahaha.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Jenny]

I'll settle for a president that doesn't willfully make things worse for the middle class in an effort to turn America into a two class system.


Can I make a guess and say you'll write in Kucininch?

[Hated Milk Machine]

the thing about the palin nomination: it really confirms my perception of McCain as a shallow opportunist this whole time. I never bought into the "maverick" bullshit - it always struck me as a calculated counterposition to bush's conservative Christian base. The fact that the media had a huge hardon for the idea just allowed him to keep the face up longer. now that the mantle doesn't suit him anymore, he's emphasizing his voting record (which was always incredibly conservative) and alternating catchphrases to try to appeal to everybody at once. The palin nomination is the nail in the coffin for me. How cynical do you have to be about the amrican public to think they won't see through this awkward disaffected-Hillary-voter grab? The fact that it's destined to failire is tjust icing on the douchebag cake. Fuck that old idiot and his transparesnt, insulting lying.

[Berliner]

I think Palin is first and foremost there to attract evangelicals, a problem McCain has with the Republican base. In terms of attracting women voters, Palin is more of a sawed off shotgun than a sniper rifle. McCain will fire her off in the general direction of women, and if he bags a few, good enough for him.

[yomamacuhsuckit]

Intrade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrade) reaction to the Palin announcement: Obama up, Mccain down. (http://freedemocracy.blogspot.com/2008/08/intrade-prediction-market-obama-vs.html)

[yomamacuhsuckit]

Oh, and that bridge to nowhere? She was for it before she was against it. (http://mediamatters.org/items/200808300004)

[Scammy Davis Boogah Jr.]

I can't wait till Barack Obama is president, so all of America's millions of problems will be solved already. That's gonna be great, the moment that happens.

Wow, you really opened my eyes to how hollow all these political promises really are.

Once again, sarcasm TOTALLY saves the day...

[isoS]

I think Palin is first and foremost there to attract evangelicals, a problem McCain has with the Republican base. In terms of attracting women voters, Palin is more of a sawed off shotgun than a sniper rifle. McCain will fire her off in the general direction of women, and if he bags a few, good enough for him.

Yeah, the morning after it's pretty clear this was for the evangelicals, not the women or the Clintonians (although it has the side-effect of offering a Republican version of the Democratic "let's make history" buzz). And I'm a little scared it's working, because I've read stories of people jumping up and down, cheering and crying at the Palin selection based only on the fact that she's pro-life. It's a large and powerful group (remember the box office for "Last Passion of Christ"?) and if they come out strong for McCain, it could be '04 all over again. The only counter is energizing young voters who lean left, which (unlike Gore and Kerry) Barack Obama actually has a good shot of doing, because he's young, charismatic and inspiring. But I'm still holding out hope that McCain himself will turn off Republicans with his positions (who cares what Palin thinks if McCain is or has been against drilling and overturning Roe v. Wade?) and his erratic behavior (i.e. choosing Palin) and enough of the base will stay home to make this a landslide.

[Garon]

I heard some jackass nutbag on America Left this afternoon saying he hates McCain and thinks he is an "odorous toad" but is going to vote for him anyway because of his picking Palin. His explanation? He thinks McCain will drop dead within the first couple years of his presidency and give Palin a shot at 12 years in the white house.

This manipulative, horse's ass of a move is probably going to work enough to have me nervous come November 4.

Unless this (http://www.zimbio.com/Sarah+Palin+Scandal/articles/6/Rumors+Sarah+Palin+Fifth+Child+Abound+Internet?sid ebar=1) turns out to be true.

[Keith Whitener]

I wonder how many people only know one thing about Palin with that one thing being the rumor about her kid.

[isoS]

You have to know a couple of things about her first to even understand that rumor (for example, that she has a four-month-old baby and a teenage daughter).

[Garon]

Anti Gay, Anti Woman's right to choose, tried to get her Ex Brother-in-Law fired from his job using the power of her job, voted against the clean water act in Alaska, has zero foreign policy experience, evangelical lunatic, husband and son are apparently independents, in the pockets of the mining companies, the oil companies, will most definitely be played by Tina Fey when she hosts SNL again...what am I missing?

[disl]

when she hosts snl again? i fully expect the cold open to the season premiere to feature fey as palin in some capacity.

[angryrobot]

I'm seeing Tina Fey but I'm hearing Police Chief Marge Gunderson.

[Garon]

lets add this to her resume shall we?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/m9HkNkS3jUQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/m9HkNkS3jUQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[nadsat droog]

lets add this to her resume shall we?

<object height="344" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/m9HkNkS3jUQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></object>

meansends (http://www.youtube.com/user/meansends) (2 hours ago)
Obama was a drug addict and I hope they had a vid of him sniffing coke.

racl101 (http://www.youtube.com/user/racl101) (2 hours ago) Damn she was hot back then too. I'm gonna enjoy looking watching her on the tube if she becomes VP. I'd love to have sex with an older woman like that.

[angryrobot]

http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html

Palin thought the Pledge of Allegiance was written by the Founding Fathers. Considering all the controversy over the Pledge in the last decade and the emergence of Google this really borders on ignorance for a public official. I think this is just one more sign that this is just another narrow-minded politician that gets all her information from specious sources like her church and right wing radio hosts.

[ProfessorShutYoMouth]

My initial assessment of the Palin situation was completely wrong.

I agree with whatshisnuts, McCain fucked himself with this choice.

As for the appeal to evangelicals, I can see that however they really need to ramp up their efforts and storm through megachurch communities around the country between now and November. I don't think she will stand up to the scrutiny, however.

When even the "mainstream" media is going negative on her, you know there is trouble afoot for McCain.

[NFox]

When even the "mainstream" media is going negative on her, you know there is trouble afoot for McCain.

As the only [apparent] independent here, I just have to say that this is not the best gauge of true potential for a candidate. The media is obviously biased, covering more of Obama's campaign, and more of it in a good light. So to see the media covering any aspect of McCain's campaign negatively is really more of the same and should serve as no indication of anything.

I say just wait and see. Do your research, vote for who you want, but don't try to guess where this is going...as the past two elections have shown us, there is a lot that can change in the course of the next 60-some odd days.

-Nick

[Scammy Davis Boogah Jr.]

Funny thing. It seems that Sarah's precious little downey, Trig, may in fact be

<a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/121350/137">HER 16 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER'S KID!!!</a>

At first, I thought this was crazy talk, but a couple things in this story really make you scratch your head.

Who flies from Texas to Alaska AFTER their water has 'broken' one month before she's due with no one on the plane or working for the airline knowing or finding out?

Who works up until the second they give birth, never shows anything resembling a growing fetus, and then returns to work immediately?

And is it maybe a 'little' suspicious that her daughter had to miss 8 MONTHS of school with mononucleosis at the same time?

If this is true (and I'm not 100% at this point, but I would totally believe it), this is OVAH...

[NFox]

And is it maybe a 'little' suspicious that her daughter had to miss 8 MONTHS of school with mononucleosis at the same time?

That number has gone up every time the story has been written. It was initially 2 months, then 4-5, now 8? Apparently she was also ripping a hole in the time-space continuum at that point in her rebellious youth.

EDIT: Pic of a pregnant Palin...the lowblow rumor mongering can stop now:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p312/CO757300/Other/Sarah%20Palin/SarahPalin-13.jpg

In addition to that all of DailyKos's photos that show Bristol's "baby bump" were taken in 2006 or mid 2007...so unless she carried the baby for 2 years, this story just keeps getting less and less likely.

Research: It does a body good.

-Nick

[ProfessorShutYoMouth]

As the only [apparent] independent here, I just have to say that this is not the best gauge of true potential for a candidate. The media is obviously biased, covering more of Obama's campaign, and more of it in a good light. So to see the media covering any aspect of McCain's campaign negatively is really more of the same and should serve as no indication of anything.

I say just wait and see. Do your research, vote for who you want, but don't try to guess where this is going...as the past two elections have shown us, there is a lot that can change in the course of the next 60-some odd days.

-Nick

For an [apparently] independent person you sure are defensive of Republicans.

That said, sure the media is biased but they are not all biased in the same way. Fox News was definitely not covering Obama's campaign in a positive light, whereas (especially now) they are fawning over McCain at every opportunity.

[NFox]

That said, sure the media is biased but they are not all biased in the same way. Fox News was definitely not covering Obama's campaign in a positive light, whereas (especially now) they are fawning over McCain at every opportunity.

Right, but one channel does not shift the bias...the mean bias still favors the left.

The only reason I'm defending the repubs is because it seems no one else here will. And I always did like a challenge.

-Nick

[Aaron1933]

EDIT: Pic of a pregnant Palin...the lowblow rumor mongering can stop now:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p312/CO757300/Other/Sarah%20Palin/SarahPalin-13.jpg

In addition to that all of DailyKos's photos that show Bristol's "baby bump" were taken in 2006 or mid 2007...so unless she carried the baby for 2 years, this story just keeps getting less and less likely.

Research: It does a body good.

-Nick

In fairness, according to this article ( http://www.zimbio.com/Sarah+Palin+Scandal/articles/6/Rumors+Sarah+Palin+Fifth+Child+Abound+Internet?sid ebar=1), "Palin appeared extremely thin for a pregnant woman until the very last month. She even appeared lithe and slender in Vogue about 4 months before Trig's birth." I'm not saying that's any more reputable than what you just posted, but considering the picture you posted doesn't give any indication of date, it doesn't necessarily refute anything. I'm not really taking a side, I'm mostly just saying

Research: Sometimes you don't do it either.

[Hated Milk Machine]

I love how, on the internet, you can call googling for pix "research."

[NFox]

I love how, on the internet, you can call googling for pix "research."

It sure beats microfiche. Same result, different technique.

And to Aaron, my picture was there to refute all the pictures that Daily Kos posted showing her stomach obscured saying "look she's not even showing." Regardless of when she started showing, she showed. There are personal accounts I read (And forgot to bookmark...grrr) of people meeting her while she was pregnant saying she was showing.

They've also misdated at least one of the pictures of Bristol. The one they claim to have been printed on March 9th was originally printed by the Anchorage Daily News in 2006. So when the pictures are reordered sequentially, it shows her stomach shrinking (Not growing). So, maybe the headline should read "Bristol Palin, Did her Mother Cover up her Diet?" It would be just as sensationalist, but probably wouldn't have the same bite as the current story. There goes my career as a leftist blog editor. Maybe the Right will still have me? Nah, my views on the war alone would prevent me from getting that job. Oh well.

This is why I only read either sides blogs when I want a good laugh. Both sides resort to tabloid-esque dirty rotten tricks when they get desperate, and I'd say that examining pictures of a teen girl's stomach classifies as desperate. I think Chris Hansen may want to stop by Daily Kos' headquarters.

-Nick

[Garon]

It just gets better and better:

Asked about Palin's national security experience, Cindy McCain could not come up with anything beyond the fact that, after all, her state is right next to Russia. "You know, the experience that she comes from is, what she has done in government -- and remember that Alaska is the closest part of our continent to Russia."

Wow. So, foreign policy experiences comes from governing a state that's closest to Russia.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/cindy-mccain-on-abc-today_b_122759.html

Keep defending them, please, they need it.

[Scammy Davis Boogah Jr.]

It wasn't just Cindy McCain either. Lindsay Graham blurted out the same talking point on Stephanopolous. That is, when he wasn't talking about how Palin is much more fit and experienced to be president than Obama.

I suppose we'll need to find someone from Maine to handle the crisis in Georgia. It is, after all, the closest state.

You would think that Evangelicals would see Gustav hitting land as their convention starts as some sort of 'sign'.

[bao]

Right, but one channel does not shift the bias...the mean bias still favors the left.

The only reason I'm defending the repubs is because it seems no one else here will. And I always did like a challenge.

-Nick

I love this ruse of independence you have going, where you pretend that "independent" and "open-minded" mean the same thing. They don't. You have done your "research" and decided that Bob Barr is the candidate who most matches your ideals and beliefs. At the very least, this makes you an extremely right-leaning independent, as you are supporting a candidate who is much, much further to the right than the Republican candidate. And yet, we're supposed to believe that you are keeping an open mind when studying McCain and Obama. I doubt it. But at least admit it.

Secondly, to argue that there is a left-leaning bias in general in the media is patently absurd. Presumably, they are also being controlled by the Elders of Zion from their stronghold in the Swiss Alps. Was the media left-leaning in 2001-2003, when dissenting voices about the war were all but drown out as the fringe? Did you actually watch any -- ANY -- network coverage of the war? It was obscenely pro-war, pro-Bush, and what's worse, actually engineered by the US government.

If anything the media is biased toward whatever is popular, whatever will get better ratings. It is a business after all. Right now, I'm sure Obama is skewing higher than McCain, thats why he has gotten more favorable coverage. Just like ratings for Fox News jumped during the war, and all other news outlets dragged to the right to compete. The media caters to what will make them money. Its a problem, for sure, but its about fucking time it favors the center-left.

For example, would you classify the mainstream media's coverage of immigration "favors the left"? If you answer yes, you're wrong. 180 degrees wrong.

[bao]

And of course its Bush-league (pun intended) to create a controversy about Palin's daughter. Given her incredible lack of experience and general knowledge about politics, and most clearly geo-politics, I find it hard to imagine that the democrats will have to stoop this low to deconstruct her candidacy.

Regarding John McCain having lost his honor (the argument that John McCain is, and always has been an opportunist) ... I disagree to the extent that I believe that McCain acted as his conscience dictated for many years, and many of his strongest stances were not typically republican stances. He did not tow the party line. Now, he's got the nomination, and from everything I have read, he is genuinely excited, even giddy, about winning the election. And he's willing to do anything to win, including go back on his hardest-fought stances (immigration, torture). Apparently, he sees the nomination as his reward for so many years fighting outside the party flock. Either way, he's still an atrocious candidate.

And if I'm a national-security fuckwit, do I feel really betrayed by McCain's vice presidential selection? Of course. Putting a person with no experience and no apparent knowledge of geo-politics (or much else) as the number two, when its nearly certain McCain will not stay totally healthy for his tenure.

[DiscoInferiorityComplex]

Well, it turns out her daughter would have been one month pregnant at the time, so it looks like that potentially embarrassing scandal has no merit...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-17-year-old-daughter-pregnant/

[GodHatesFlags]

I like that this lady is against pot because it "sends the wrong message to kids" but she was in a BEAAAAAUUUUUTTTTYYYY PAGEANT...

that's funny to me even if the correlation is weak.

if Barack wins and nothing really changes, then can we all agree it's time to disband the two party system once and for all?

[mezmorized]

Palin’s 17-Year-Old Daughter Is Pregnant

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/01/palins-17-year-old-daughter-is-pregnant/

ST. PAUL — The 17-year-old daughter of Gov. Sarah Palin, John McCain’s running mate, is five months pregnant, Senator McCain’s campaign advisers announced today.

The daughter, Bristol, plans to marry the father, the campaign said.

I'm not completely sure what the rumors and questions are surrounding Palin's pregnancy or her daughter's, but maybe this article can help and maybe someone can explain to me why this matters, beyond her religious stance on abortion?

[mezmorized]

I like that this lady is against pot because it "sends the wrong message to kids" but she was in a BEAAAAAUUUUUTTTTYYYY PAGEANT...


http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1837523_1837531_1837534,00.html

In 2003, the Alaska Court of Appeals legalized the possession of small amounts — four ounces or less — of marijuana in the home, making it the only state in America to allow it. In 2006, then-governor Frank Murkowski outlawed the ruling; the Superior Court, in turn, struck down some of his restrictions (now Alaskans can possess only one ounce). The battle over marijuana became a minor issue during the 2006 Alaska gubernatorial race (which Palin won), with Murkowski claiming he had never smoked pot and Palin admitting that she had tried it. "I can't claim a Bill Clinton and say that I never inhaled," she said at the time.

[Berliner]

Well, it turns out her daughter would have been one month pregnant at the time, so it looks like that potentially embarrassing scandal has no merit...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-17-year-old-daughter-pregnant/

I don't care, I still think she's a Muslim.

[Marty_Malt]

ST. PAUL, Minnesota (CNN) -- Bristol Palin, the 17-year-old daughter of Sarah Palin, is pregnant and will keep the baby and marry the father, a senior aide to Sen. John McCain confirmed to CNN Tuesday.


Chalk up another win for "abstinence only" sex education!

[ericluxury]

When even the "mainstream" media is going negative on her, you know there is trouble afoot for McCain.

I don't naturally understand evangelicals, they have a very strange logic to me, but I don't think this matters. Conservative Christians appear to have a lot of paranoia towards the secular society which is where they place mainstream media. So when one of their own gets attacked, it doesn't necessarily mean what it means to liberals (though the hard-core of any party has that same paranoia). The RNC is going to be interesting. They also have to reach for the middle while appealing to the base and I am curious at what their strategy is for that.

[NFox]

I love this ruse of independence you have going, where you pretend that "independent" and "open-minded" mean the same thing.

Well, I guess I should consult with you from now on, since you seem to have such a firm grasp on my political ideology. I considered both mainstream candidates thoroughly before deciding that they weren't for me (very open-minded of me, no?) and as I've already said, Bob Barr does not match my ideals 100%, but he comes the closest of all of the candidates.

Honestly, if you were to chart my ideologies, I would probably fall on the border between libertarian and anarchist (You try finding a candidate that fits that)...so keep assuming you know where my alliances lay, but when either side starts resorting to muckraking I will do research in order to determine its veracity.

So, go on, believe what you want about me, but please, just don't resort to these stupid, presumptuous ad hominem attacks.

-Nick

PS: You take the internet waaay too seriously.

[smartbunny]

Palin supports abstinence-only education in schools, and all of the usual right-wing Family Values stuff, which I am sure does not include being preggers out of wedlock. But not everything works in neat little packages. Life is unpredictable and messy, and we need progressive ideas to help people that make mistakes and everyone deserves equal rights. She should learn from this and we liberals should take the high road and not talk smack about a 17-year old kid who screwed up. We should merely say, "See, sometimes things happen. Our best wishes to you, and remember this when others need help or compassion."

[bao]

Honestly, if you were to chart my ideologies, I would probably fall on the border between libertarian and anarchist (You try finding a candidate that fits that)...so keep assuming you know where my alliances lay, but when either side starts resorting to muckraking I will do research in order to determine its veracity.

So, go on, believe what you want about me, but please, just don't resort to these stupid, presumptuous ad hominem attacks.

-Nick

PS: You take the internet waaay too seriously.

... says the guy who's posted about 15 times and 3,000 words in this thread in the last week. Nice ploy, though.

By the way, what does that even mean, that I take the internet "waaaay too seriously"?

Also, you should look up the definition of ad hominem, I think. For example, in my "ad hominem" attack, I pretty clearly critiqued the exact substance of what you were arguing -- that the mainstream media is biased to the left -- thereby making it not ad hominem. Though in your response, you conveniently ignored that part of my post. Probably because what you were arguing was clearly absurd.

Also, libertarianism is usually a hodgepodge of left and right-leaning beliefs, which are held together by a loose skeleton of "libertarian" ideals. In your posts, the right side has been clear, but the left side has yet to make an appearance. Which is ok, but please stop implying that us idiots who support one of the "mainstream" candidates are doing so because we are not smart enough to open-mindedly weigh our options, unless they are spoon fed to us by a slanted media.

[Scammy Davis Boogah Jr.]

Honestly, if you were to chart my ideologies, I would probably fall on the border between libertarian and anarchist

That's the most nonsensical thing I've ever read.

You can't fall on the border between anarchist and anything. That's the point! It's like saying you fall on the border between no helmet laws and destroying all motorcycles.


As for Palin, at this point I don't think it even matters. Even if she wasn't a woefully underqualified tool with as much qualification to be president as your average Jiffy Lube manager (He's got executive experience!), I think she's just got too much going o