Comic Books!

[Michael Blacklist]

Nothing much happening in the world of comics, but Comic-Con's coming up. Here's some panels of note thus far.

THURSDAY
7:00-9:00 Comedy Central TV Funhouse with Robert Smigel—Robert Smigel (Saturday Night Live) and Dino Stamatopoulos (Morel Orel) reunite to discuss the most groundbreaking show to ever hit (and subsequently disappear) from basic cable. Join the guys to relive the glory of the best show you barely remember. Room 6CDEF

FRIDAY
6:30-7:30 THE GOON- Q&A with Goon creator Eric Powell and Reno 911 writers and stars Ben Garant and Thomas Lennon about their new super secret super fantastic comics project! If you miss this panel, everyone will know more about this project than you and that maker you stupid and unattractive to women. Room 30AB

[aenemaTron]

They're letting Dino back into Comicon? Sweet!

[Jouster]

I finally read The Dark Knight Returns and was pretty underwhelmed. This is the same guy who wrote Year One?

("Hey, I just saw Heat!")

[willweldon]

I finally read The Dark Knight Returns and was pretty underwhelmed. This is the same guy who wrote Year One?

I still love that book, but I think a big part of it is because I don't like Superman, and I loved seeing him as a sad sell out.

*SPOILER FOR SOMETHING THAT CAME OUT IN THE 1980s*

When he's cradling Bruce Wayne's (supposedly) lifeless body and says "Don't you touch him"... still one of my favorite scenes in any comic I've ever read.

On the flip side, I'm impressed that Spiderman's "Brand New Day" can contain so many of my LEAST favorite scenes in any comic ever, week after week. The big selling point for me was Steve McNiven and Chris Bachalo on art more than any of the writers they assembled. Of course McNiven left while Bachalo is barely being used. The arc he did with Zeb Wells has been by far the best, and of course Zeb Wells isn't being used, either. I'm excited for the Dan Slott/John Romita Jr run coming up, but JRJR is gone after that. Back to Phil Jimenez...

I've been really worked up about how bad Spider-man has been since the quasi relaunch. The relaunch that still has me confused (how can he be in the Avengers if none of them know who he is? He almost married Mary Jane and she didn't know who was? Who thought bringing Bob Gale in would be anything but disastrous?). Straczynsky did some bad stuff, but at least his run was interesting.

I am too angry about Spider-man comics.

[KevinLee]

I finally read The Dark Knight Returns and was pretty underwhelmed. This is the same guy who wrote Year One?

("Hey, I just saw Heat!")

Yeah, It's an old one. But I didn't discover it until I was in my twenties. (Just like I dicovered America in 1492.)

I liked the juxtaposition of images when The Bat confronts Two-Face. Those two guys have got a lot in common. Harvey and Bruce.

[Jouster]

There were definitely some nice moments, but after loving Year One I was pretty underwhelmed by TDKR.

[Kentock]

There were definitely some nice moments, but after loving Year One I was pretty underwhelmed by TDKR.

I really love this book, but you are the third person I've recently spoken to who hasn't liked the book. So rather than argue it again, I'll list a couple things I love about the book.

-Use of news and other tv programming in a variety of ways (later stolen by Todd Macfarlane for Spawn)
-The layout is excellent.
-"The last one, hurts."
-Superman fight!

[littlegirltree]

Anyone gone to <a href = "http://www.spxpo.com/">SPX</a> before? We just had the HeroesCon here in Charlotte a few weeks ago and now I'm looking to head next to SPX for the 1st time. My husband is finally starting to take publishing <a href = "http://www.freewebs.com/amateurhourcomic/"> his comics </a>seriously and I want to keep up momentum before he loses interest/ambition.

[slapstickeulogist]

NERDS!!!!








(I'm going to NY Comic Con alone.)

[Scratch Lightning]

I still haven't read The Dark Knight Returns.

But if you're curious, The Dark Knight Strikes Back is a steaming pile. Just a complete misfire in every way.

[Michael Blacklist]

There were definitely some nice moments, but after loving Year One I was pretty underwhelmed by TDKR.

Have you read The Long Halloween? It takes a few cues from Year One and expands upon them. It takes place shortly after Year One and is much better than Year Two.

[Grant Pardee]

I've never quite understood the love for The Long Halloween. Aside from the portrayal of Harvey Dent, it essentially reads like "what if Batman met the Godfather characters?" I like the idea of Batman vs the mob, just not in the way it was handled.

Plus the ending was stupid.

I really love this book, but you are the third person I've recently spoken to who hasn't liked the book. So rather than argue it again, I'll list a couple things I love about the book.

-Use of news and other tv programming in a variety of ways (later stolen by Todd Macfarlane for Spawn)
-The layout is excellent.
-"The last one, hurts."
-Superman fight!

Frank Miller's Batman is the only comic book Batman for me. I love Dark Knight Returns and Year One to death - the other highly recommended Bat books (TLH, Dark Victory, Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum, Hush, etc) fall flat for me. Some of them might be more interesting than others, but Miller seems to really get the character.

Other fun bits of DKR:

-"Something tells me to stop with the leg. I don't listen to it."

-Batman's weird rationalizations when he breaks his 'don't kill' code. "Rubber bullets. Honest." while blowing Mutants up, and then snapping the Joker's neck and imagining Joker did it himself (evidenced by Joker speaking in squiggly gray speech bubbles, which are reserved throughout only for Batman - except for this one moment when Batman is already becoming a little delusional thanks to gunshot/knife wounds)

-scary skeleton Superman in a nuke blast.



...ah, comic books.

[Michael Blacklist]

I've never quite understood the love for The Long Halloween. Aside from the portrayal of Harvey Dent, it essentially reads like "what if Batman met the Godfather characters?" I like the idea of Batman vs the mob, just not in the way it was handled.

Plus the ending was stupid.



I liked that someone took the seeds planted in Year One (Falcone especially) and went with it. The relationship between Gordon, Batman and Dent is my favorite part.

[willweldon]

This thread hasn't been used in forever, but I was wondering if anyone else has been completely underwhelmed by the major corss overs by the big two (Final Crisis and Secret Invasion). Secret Invasion has absolutely zero emotional resonance, and Final Crisis really doesn't hold up to what Grant Morrison is doing in Bat RIP. I used to think it was kind of cheesy*, but I miss Marvel Civil War all of a sudden.

*I did think Civil War: Confessions was one of the best mainstream comics written all last year, though.

[Michael Blacklist]

This thread hasn't been used in forever, but I was wondering if anyone else has been completely underwhelmed by the major corss overs by the big two (Final Crisis and Secret Invasion). Secret Invasion has absolutely zero emotional resonance, and Final Crisis really doesn't hold up to what Grant Morrison is doing in Bat RIP. I used to think it was kind of cheesy*, but I miss Marvel Civil War all of a sudden.

*I did think Civil War: Confessions was one of the best mainstream comics written all last year, though.

I wouldn't say I've been underwhelmed, just surprised that the best parts of each event are happening in the tie-ins: every issue of Mighty and New Avengers have been great, and Superman Beyond revealed so much that it's weird that it didn't happen in the main book.

[willweldon]

I didn't pick up Super-Man beyond due to poor word of mouth and budget constraints. Was Morrison at his Morrison-y best?

[Michael Blacklist]

Was Morrison at his Morrison-y best?

Much more than anything else Final Crisis related.

[Scratch Lightning]

I think that, aside from New X-Men, Grant Morrison writes indecipherable and overrated comic books. Either everyone else is just pretending to "get it", or they're all in on some huge Truman Show-esque prank on me.

There. I said it.

[erechoveraker]

I like All Star Supes and WE3, but other than that I totally agree. I'd say most of his X-men run was plagued with that indecipherable gibberish too, except for maybe the first 3-4 issues of the run. The last half, especially the last 2 arcs with Phoenix and Magneto were just total stream-of-consciousness nonsense. Boo.

[Ivan]

I think that, aside from New X-Men, Grant Morrison writes indecipherable and overrated comic books. Either everyone else is just pretending to "get it", or they're all in on some huge Truman Show-esque prank on me.

There. I said it.

If you like weird things then you understand Grant Morrison. I'm sorry you're such a square. Please return to Squaresville.

[kevin]

morrison's seven soldiers maxi series is sprawling, ambitious and fresh. seaguy is awesome. and give him some credit for the cinematic jla reboot.

some of his comics require more concentration than others, current run on batman included, but they always have interesting and funny concepts.

of course all star supes and we3 are gold. i'm not really checking out final crisis.

[Finnegan TG]

I just read the first 6 issues of Morrison's 'Doom Patrol' and found them really easy to understand. they were the most straightforward Morrison books I've read. I can't wait to start the next trade.

for people who have read this run, do things get more messed up later on? I'd hate to get ten issues in and then suddenly feel like I'm reading the Invisibles.

also, Kill Your Boyfriend is a just-okay Morrison book with an amazing title

[Michael Blacklist]

for people who have read this run, do things get more messed up later on? I'd hate to get ten issues in and then suddenly feel like I'm reading the Invisibles.

It doesn't get too Invisibles-y, but does get much more complex than those initial issues. It's a fun run.

For more mainstream fun from Grant, his and Mark Millar's run on Flash will be hitting paperback in January.

[Ian Brill]

for people who have read this run, do things get more messed up later on? I'd hate to get ten issues in and then suddenly feel like I'm reading the Invisibles.



Let me give you this fact so you can decide for yourself: Doom Patrol was inspired by dreams, Invisbles was inspired by drugs.

[Americas Team]

The final panels of the last issue of invincible were really unnerving.

Anyone reading the new Marvel Zombies?

[Me!]

There's a new one?!

Last one I read was the Evil Dead/Marvel Zombies collection.

[Americas Team]

There's a new one?!

Last one I read was the Evil Dead/Marvel Zombies collection.

Yes there is a new one but it is not written by Robert Kirkman. I am kind of hesitant to purchase it. It is starting to feel like an ongoing "What if..." issue.

[KevinLee]

I'm reading Transhuman and Pax Romana. Good stuff but they have been taking forever between issues. So much so that I'll lose interest if they don't put some unedited cuss words in there soon.

[Scratch Lightning]

So Secret Invastion kind of sucked, everybody.

Anyone else read it?

[AndyHohner]

Anyone reading the new Marvel Zombies?

I am. I don't like it as much as the previous ones, but it's still pretty okay. It focuses on Machine Man and Morbius for the most part. Instead of zombifying past Marvel covers they have decided to Marvel-ize zombie movie posters. The cover for issue number 4 looks like it is inspired by the Shaun of the Dead poster. It is definitely different now that Kirman isn't doing it.

[Americas Team]

I am. I don't like it as much as the previous ones, but it's still pretty okay. It focuses on Machine Man and Morbius for the most part. Instead of zombifying past Marvel covers they have decided to Marvel-ize zombie movie posters. The cover for issue number 4 looks like it is inspired by the Shaun of the Dead poster. It is definitely different now that Kirman isn't doing it.

The second one got pretty silly after they came up with the angle that the hunger would subside if you did not feed it. I read three pages of MZ3 and gave up.

[wearechange]

Check out Scott Pilgrim, Michael Cera is going to play in the movie version.

[KevinLee]

Hey! When's that comicbookstore openmic, in Chicago at Ashland and Montrose? I ask cause I just moved in right above there, and its cooold out.

[Michael Blacklist]

So Secret Invastion kind of sucked, everybody.

Anyone else read it?

I think it's the only time the crossover issues of a huge event have been better than the actual event.

[nathansmart]

Here is a comic book based on the movie Big:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AHFXBY8G

[mercurialblonde]

Is anyone reading Final Crisis? It's completely insane. Tigers on jetpacks are fighting tigers riding dogs and Hal Jordan is punching New Gods in the face. It's madness! Also I don't know that Darkseid has been done in a more evil way than this since Kirby's stuff.

Also did anyone pick up Phonogram this week?

[Scratch Lightning]

I'm not a big DC fan, but I've been reading Final Crisis out of curiosity and against my better judgment.

The closest I can come to explaining this series is that it makes me angry. People are saying that Grant Morrison is a genius, but this book is honestly one of the stupidest fucking things I have ever read in my entire life. It just jumps from panel to panel without any sense of coherent story or characters. Tiger people and soldiers riding giant dalmatians and characters I've never heard of showing up and shouting meaningless expository nonsense about anti-life and face painting and solving Rubik's Cubes. Which would be fine, except it's all so boring. It's honestly a chore just to make it to the end of each issue. Yet for some reason I keep coming back to see how much worse it can get.

It's like they took the most obscure corner of the DC Universe and then had a second-grader write fan fiction about it. Just awful in every way.

At least this series reminds me why I don't read DC.

[mercurialblonde]

Meh. I love he DCU so your obscure characters are my holyjeewhiz moments. Plus I'm into a lot of the magical theories that Morrison is all about, so the whole thing is very much exactly what I have always wanted to see.

It's a really incredible ride so far.

[Adam S. McCabe]

I'm not a big DC fan, but I've been reading Final Crisis out of curiosity and against my better judgment.

The closest I can come to explaining this series is that it makes me angry. People are saying that Grant Morrison is a genius, but this book is honestly one of the stupidest fucking things I have ever read in my entire life. It just jumps from panel to panel without any sense of coherent story or characters. Tiger people and soldiers riding giant dalmatians and characters I've never heard of showing up and shouting meaningless expository nonsense about anti-life and face painting and solving Rubik's Cubes. Which would be fine, except it's all so boring. It's honestly a chore just to make it to the end of each issue. Yet for some reason I keep coming back to see how much worse it can get.

It's like they took the most obscure corner of the DC Universe and then had a second-grader write fan fiction about it. Just awful in every way.

At least this series reminds me why I don't read DC.

Wait a minute...is this Jeph Loeb?

[Scratch Lightning]

Am I really the only one who doesn't get Final Crisis? I'm a huge comic dork, and I can't make any sense of it. Call me old-fashioned, but I like the events where I can actually follow along. Like when Superman died or Batman got his back broken.

Although maybe it's a Morrison thing. I thought Seven Soldiers sucked balls, too. (I liked his work on X-Men and We3, though.)

Fuck it. I'll just go back to work writing Ultimates 4, where I'm going to retcon Captain America's origin (now he's an alien).

[Adam S. McCabe]

Thank you, Jeph. Takes a big man.

[mercurialblonde]

Am I really the only one who doesn't get Final Crisis? I'm a huge comic dork, and I can't make any sense of it. Call me old-fashioned, but I like the events where I can actually follow along. Like when Superman died or Batman got his back broken.

Although maybe it's a Morrison thing. I thought Seven Soldiers sucked balls, too. (I liked his work on X-Men and We3, though.)

Fuck it. I'll just go back to work writing Ultimates 4, where I'm going to retcon Captain America's origin (now he's an alien).

No there's a few people out there who don't "get" Final Crisis and complain loudly to that effect across the internet. But it's certainly not a majority.

Seven Soldiers was brilliant fun. The way that it all came together was really great. Did you read it in trade or the monthlies? I read it in trade where it's put in the order that kind of shows you the whole tapestry really effectively. It's a powerhouse story I think, and it's worth it for the Frankenstein section alone I think.

What don't you get about Final Crisis though? I've noticed a lot of people are completely thrown by the lack of transitions between scenes in the book. But I'm used to that sort of thing from watching TV, and it creates a very disorienting mood which fits what's going on in the book really well.

The story is pretty simple though. Darkseid has the anti-life equation and is taking over earth and thus ushering in a crisis-like event.

You're writing Ultimates 4? I thought Millar was writing Ultimates 4 or something? Is Ultimates 3 over?

[Michael Blacklist]

You're writing Ultimates 4? I thought Millar was writing Ultimates 4 or something? Is Ultimates 3 over?


Millar's writing a book called Ultimate Avengers, which will be comprised of four six-issue arcs. Each arc will have a different artist. I think the only two that have been confirmed are Carlos Pacheco and Leinil Yu.

Loeb has recently reaffirmed plans for Ultimates 4 with Frank Cho on art.

The story is pretty simple though. Darkseid has the anti-life equation and is taking over earth and thus ushering in a crisis-like event.

As much as I'm liking the series, what you said right there would make no sense to anyone not familiar with the DC line. My customers have all complained about the same thing: inconsistent art, no transitions and seemingly arbitrary endings.

I can completely understand why people are confused. Final Crisis is not only the supposed finale to the Crisis trilogy, but a revitalization of the Fourth World characters in addition to a psuedo-sequel to the Seven Soldiers event. For new readers, FC is like picking up the final Dark Tower novel and deciding it would be a good place to start getting into the series.

[mercurialblonde]

As much as I'm liking the series, what you said right there would make no sense to anyone not familiar with the DC line. My customers have all complained about the same thing: inconsistent art, no transitions and seemingly arbitrary endings.

I can completely understand why people are confused. Final Crisis is not only the supposed finale to the Crisis trilogy, but a revitalization of the Fourth World characters in addition to a psuedo-sequel to the Seven Soldiers event. For new readers, FC is like picking up the final Dark Tower novel and deciding it would be a good place to start getting into the series.

Here's an even simpler plot then: The big bad god guy has taken over earth, and the nice guys are trying to stop him...with their fists. This isn't like high level uber sophisticated literature. It's a superhero comic. It's pretty straightforward. Bad guy and good guy fight it out in some manner.

But yeah, the target audience of this book is not new readers, it's a Crisis book. When has a Crisis book ever been for anyone but DC fans? I guess Identity Crisis is the closest.

And one could argue that Marvel's Secret Invasion requires knowledge of Civil War, House of M, Avengers Disassembled, Captain America's Death, Thunderbolts, Secret Wars, and Annihilation.

One thing I like about how DC is doing Final Crisis is that they are keeping it relatively contained to it's small little corner of the DCU, so if you're not interested, you can read other books that don't really have anything to do with it that are great, like Secret Six(which for my money is one of the very best superhero books on the shelves, I think this and Hellcat are my two favorite superhero books every month). And then once it's all over, that's when we'll see the impact on other books.

Has anyone read the new Phonogram yet?

[Berliner]

That Wolverine movie trailer makes me wonder:

Does anyone else really, really hate Wolverine?

[aenemaTron]

Other than Sabertooth? Hey! I'm useless.

[chapina]

Hey nerds that know stuff, any recs for a comic book that would be appealing to a 12 yr old who hates reading and reads at a 5th grade level? I'm trying to get my cousin into reading but he's fightin' like hell.

[Michael Blacklist]

Hey nerds that know stuff, any recs for a comic book that would be appealing to a 12 yr old who hates reading and reads at a 5th grade level? I'm trying to get my cousin into reading but he's fightin' like hell.



If he likes any of the superhero movies that have come out recently, start by trying to find some paperback collections of those characters. Here's a pretty comprehensive list of comic collections if you want to search by title of character: http://tplist.millarworld.net/

If he likes Batman or Superman, a good choice might be the "Superman/Batman" book that AST's Jeph Loeb wrote. It's big superhero action that really needs no reference points like most comics do.

There's a book called Invincible about a high school student who's the son of the world's most famous superhero, who suddenly develops superpowers like his dad's and follows in his footsteps.

A lot of the Spider-Man books are hard to get into, but Ultimate Spider-Man is a good one to start new readers on. It focuses on Peter Parker in high school and requires no outside knowledge of Spider-Man other than the fact that he's a kid who got bitten and now has spider powers.

[AmericasMobileDevice]

Hey nerds that know stuff, any recs for a comic book that would be appealing to a 12 yr old who hates reading and reads at a 5th grade level? I'm trying to get my cousin into reading but he's fightin' like hell.

I think a lot of kids that age read Bone. I have never read it but I know a lot kids love it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_(comics)

[Michael Blacklist]

I think a lot of kids in that age read Bone. I have never read it but I know a lot kids love it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_(comics)

True, and a lot of people who have an aversion to black and white have been picking it up in the new color versions.

[Kentock]

Michael has a great (black)list. Invincible and Ultimate Spiderman are both excellent choices. Bone is great too, the new colored versions are really well done (although they might have been colored in the original serialized run).

And yay for Chapina for not being like all my family members when I was 12 and picking 3 random issues from the rack at CVS!

[Finnegan TG]

anyone reading the new Umbrella Academy? haven't picked up the first issue yet

[Scratch Lightning]

The first volume of Runaways is an all-ages book and is pretty great.

I'd have to go back through the first 5 issues of Final Crisis, but from what I can remember, I couldn't recognize most of it. Like the Japanese robot/sumo team. And the castle, and the giant dogs that people ride, and the tiger man, and the guy who's drawing stuff, and pretty much everything else.

I do get that a bunch of old "gods" (though I can't take these characters seriously with names like Granny Goodness) are taking over the world, and it's a basic good vs. evil story. I also realize I'm out of the loop when it comes to a lot of these characters are. I didn't read Countdown or 52 and I'm not familiar with any of the characters from JSA.

It just feels like the whole thing is a parody. Like Morrison took all of these ridiculously stupid concepts and made them even more stupid by having them run around between disconnected panels yelling about an anti-life equation. I know comics are inherently silly, but I've been reading them for 20 years and this is the first time I thought "people actually read this crap?"

Anyway, I won't bring it up again - it's obviously a difference of opinion and I'm not the target audience for this thing.

[Berliner]

So everybody loves Wolverine eh?